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Jeff's Thread. No Topic! Just Go for It. But, Be Nice!

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#61
Hoover said:
Hi Jeff,

Way back in 1981 or '82 you came to Berklee and did a clinic. During that clinic (or actually, after it was "officially" over but you were still doing Q&A with the students) you mentioned that it was Mike Stern who taught you how to really get walking lines to swing.

You played two examples -- not even plugged into an amp -- of "this is how I used to walk..." and then "this is how I walked after Mike showed me how to swing" and the difference was ASTOUNDING. Both just simple quarter note support lines, but that second example, man, it was just...so...so... (25+ years later I'm still searching for words to describe what I heard you play!).

I'm wondering if you remember and would share with us what it was that Mike Stern taught you about getting quarter note walking lines to swing?

Thanks.
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I honestly cannot remember! I have had a million great teachers and mentors. Mike Stern was just one guy who was super-helpful to my musical life. But, for the life of me, I just don't remember what he showed me. Probably to play steadily and represent the chord as well as I could, I guess!
 
#62
Road Hat said:
Hey Jeff - big fan!

Studying jazz is where it's at! Jim Sellers (RIP), former music educator and trumpet player for Doc Severinsen's band, force-fed us jazz in '75/'77. He SLAMMED us with theory and he insisted that we learned to count different rhythmns simultaneously on different limbs. He drilled us incessantly, but in musical ways. He taught us how to 'think' music.

Fast foward 25 years, and I'm in the studio at a master session with a chart that says (only):

/ Em9 / % / A6 / % / x 4
/ G6 / Em F#m / Bm / E / G6 / F#m / Bm/ Bm /

etc., plus bridge, plus outro. The songwriter runs the changes, calls for a Latin feels, counts to four, and off we go. Nailed it on the first take.

Thanks Mr. Sellers, you grumpy old bastard - I owe you.
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Guys like you and me, that is, guys who "didn't run the show" when it came to our own musical instruction, but who gave in to the irresistable forces that were our music teachers who were far more qualified to determine what we needed to learn way better than we were, always feel a sense of gratitude for what these gifted, occasionally salty and rough-and-tumble teachers insisted that we learn. I came up in an era where teachers would sometimes call you names, put you down for not doing the work, make you practice via some real verbal intimidation, or just bully you into getting your musical act together. Man! I went through the ringer, but I am here to tell about it. As Chris Rock used to joke, "I may not agree with it, but I do understand it!
 
#63
Just a couple of unrelated questions

1. Do you believe in a 'ear training regiment'? That is a particular or specific method of training the ear or is it simply a matter of transcribing music that trains the ear?

2. At The Players School do you discuss the business of music? If so, how and in what context?

3. With respect to question #2, if you were a young musician starting your career now. You'd finished your education, could read music proficiently, etc., where would you go and how would you start?
 
#69
Road Hat said:
Hey Jeff - big fan!

Studying jazz is where it's at! Jim Sellers (RIP), former music educator and trumpet player for Doc Severinsen's band, force-fed us jazz in '75/'77. He SLAMMED us with theory and he insisted that we learned to count different rhythmns simultaneously on different limbs. He drilled us incessantly, but in musical ways. He taught us how to 'think' music.

Fast foward 25 years, and I'm in the studio at a master session with a chart that says (only):

/ Em9 / % / A6 / % / x 4
/ G6 / Em F#m / Bm / E / G6 / F#m / Bm/ Bm /

etc., plus bridge, plus outro. The songwriter runs the changes, calls for a Latin feels, counts to four, and off we go. Nailed it on the first take.

Thanks Mr. Sellers, you grumpy old bastard - I owe you.
Click to expand...

what a seemingly small world. my father played with them when they would swing through VA. he and tommy newsom were friends / acquaintances.

:D
 
#70
Not quite from england- but near enough,
it's great to have communication with a legend,
I had the luck of playing with a child prodigy (when i met him he was 36),
he told me all time signatures can be broken down to groups of two and three-
(one of his tunes was in 10/16) - but I had to learn
I was at the time into thin lizzy Ac/DC and Charlie Parker
this guy sat me down at his piano and went through everything,
Bach (inventions - I couldn't read a note then)
Bartok
all the classical masters
Malmsteen on guitar (quote " listen to that - Bach played badly and still sounds good)
This guy listened to top 40 , reggae, metal , manufactured pop- he got something out of all music - well to be honest not much out the manufactered stuff.
My reward from this education ?
Still like to play Thin Lizzy and rock music with a bit of jazz on the side.
but I stand as the band leader first and the Bass player second.
Full credit to you and your stand on music education,
Thanks
 
#71
I make the most progress when I have had the pleasure of sharing the stage with outstanding musicians who challenge me to take it to the next level.

In college, (East Carolina U. 1990-1994) visiting artists such as Mulgrew Miller, Christian McBride, Benny Green, Kevin Toney, Land Richards, Doc Gibbs, etc. would sit in with the ensembles at festival time. I got schooled just listening to them play, but playing with them simply brought us all to another level. This atmosphere, along with bassist/director Carroll V. Dashiell seemed to be a magnet for many fine local musicians who wanted to play.

One individual in particular was drummer, David Via. He was one of the finest drummers with whom I have ever played. He always listened to the big picture, interacted tastefully, supported, lead when necessary and contributed artistically. I didn't learn of his passing until last month when I googled his name to see what he had been up to. Jeff- I'm sorry to hear of the loss of your colleague.
 
#73
When I did a gig with my mentors quartet, the boss man asked me where i was studing- I told him where - he said they don't have a music program, I said yep- I'm studying electronics. We hadn't a hope of seeing any American jazz players, - it's getting better now thank goodness.
 
#74
bassybill said:
Here! :D

Okay, in the spirit of this being a general discussion on music - what things do you guys find the most musically satisfying in your regular playing/practising/listening or whatever? For me, I think it's when I get the chance to play with a really first rate drummer. Never fails to bring a smile to my face and I go home happy.

How about you?
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After years of playing rock/pop/funk casuals, I've had loads of fun playing musical theater the last few years.

I moved to Tacoma in '03, after living in Eugene OR for 20+ years. One day I was asked by my church's music minister (my first Tacoma-area gig) if I was actually reading his charts or if I knew the music liturgy from memory. When I told him I was reading it (mostly just chords), he told me that Tacoma Musical Playhouse needed an electric bass player for "Suds."

Since the musical is mostly rock and soul standards from the 60's and early 70's, I figured I could pull the gig off without too much difficulty. However, I became terribly nervous and quite intimidated when I picked up that huge score! After a few weeks of studying my @$$ off to learn the music "measure-by-measure," I arrived at the first rehearsal prepared enough to barely get by. My reading improved a lot during the course of the show (four performances a week for a month), however, and that production led to many more, including The Full Monty (great book), Little Shop of Horrors (also fun), Miss Saigon (what an intense score!!) and my latest show, The Wedding Singer.

What's been so cool about these gigs is that each one is a pretty deep lesson in the style(s) of the musical. The Wedding Singer, for example, was scored by someone who knows 70's-80's pop-style electric bass very well. It calls for octaver, envelope follower, chorus and fretless bass (as well as fretted). I actually learned a few neat tricks about playing with an octaver from one of the "references": Move That Thang.

I'm not a great sight-reader, but by being willing to knuckle down and plow through the charts, I've had some extremely rewarding musical experiences that I could never have had "by ear." This stuff isn't for everyone, of course! But it's been great for me!

Thanks for the thread, Jeff!
 
#77
Hello Jeff. I just wanted to thank you for your advice in the other thread. You helped explain to me (pretty well) the point in learning to read music. I still am not going to learn to read music, yet, because I don't really have any intentions on making any money off of playing. But, if I did, you showed me a good place to start.
 
#78
WalterBush said:
Hey there, Jeff! Nice to see you around. I was wondering something...can you teach someone to really listen?

I'll be specific; I've got a couple of girls I'm teaching at my church to put into rotation with me. I can show them the tunes, teach them scales and technique, write out chord charts (which quickly followed with an explanation of what A- and CMaj were), and one of them is interested in learning to read. But I have no idea how to teach them to really listen critically to what each instrument in a tune is doing...when I give them tunes to learn, they come back playing root notes.

Ditto with a new soundguy we're training. He knows the theory behind running a board, works the controls, etc. but doesn't seem to really listen to the music...it's all very mechanical.

So...how do I teach someone to listen to what's going on musically? Any suggestions?
Click to expand...

JeffBerlin said:
Maybe it's too early for young students like this to listen and be aware of what other instruments are doing. It seems that it is all that they can do to keep their place in the music that they are playing. Their job should be to count and make sure that they are not lost in the music. There's a basic instinct that players develop as they improve, which is to play in time. As they improve, they'll get the hang of it. But I would just have them be responsible for their own part and their need to make sure that they are playing it in its correct manner. Did I help?
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My 2p if I may...

WB, you don't say how long your two students have been playing, but I'd say that (assuming they're fairly new to all of this) maybe, just maybe, you're hoping for too much too soon.

From my point of view the fundamental start point is to lock in with the bass drum with the root, then, as experience & self-confidence grows to expand that into simple grooving, & further on to blossom into the harmonic interaction with all the other players, whilst still locking it down & grooving like it's going out of fashion.

When I started playing out (after years of bedroom noodling), it was a bit of a shock to realise that I knew next to nothing & had to gently learn how to fit all that I thought I knew into a real-world situation (if that makes any sense). So I went back to the start - Root 'n' Lock >> Root 'n' Groove >> Groove & Phrase >> Mix 'em all up & have a Ball.

Still working on the last two, long way to go & there's no destination... just the journey. :D

As to your soundguy... Does he play an instrument? If he doesn't, maybe offer some lessons. Perhaps he can't hear the individual interactions & nuances of the performance purely because he doesn't know from experience how we all interact. I'm sure there are Pro soundguys out there who don't play, but I'd bet they're a rare breed - the desk is an instrument in its own right, I feel.

Jeff... Great thread, thanks for taking the time. Much is sailing 30,000 feet over my head at the moment, but there's good stuff so far & I'm sure much food for thought to come.

Pete.
 
#79
gregbackstrom said:
After years of playing rock/pop/funk casuals, I've had loads of fun playing musical theater the last few years.

I moved to Tacoma in '03, after living in Eugene OR for 20+ years. One day I was asked by my church's music minister (my first Tacoma-area gig) if I was actually reading his charts or if I knew the music liturgy from memory. When I told him I was reading it (mostly just chords), he told me that Tacoma Musical Playhouse needed an electric bass player for "Suds."

Since the musical is mostly rock and soul standards from the 60's and early 70's, I figured I could pull the gig off without too much difficulty. However, I became terribly nervous and quite intimidated when I picked up that huge score! After a few weeks of studying my @$$ off to learn the music "measure-by-measure," I arrived at the first rehearsal prepared enough to barely get by. My reading improved a lot during the course of the show (four performances a week for a month), however, and that production led to many more, including The Full Monty (great book), Little Shop of Horrors (also fun), Miss Saigon (what an intense score!!) and my latest show, The Wedding Singer.

What's been so cool about these gigs is that each one is a pretty deep lesson in the style(s) of the musical. The Wedding Singer, for example, was scored by someone who knows 70's-80's pop-style electric bass very well. It calls for octaver, envelope follower, chorus and fretless bass (as well as fretted). I actually learned a few neat tricks about playing with an octaver from one of the "references": Move That Thang.

I'm not a great sight-reader, but by being willing to knuckle down and plow through the charts, I've had some extremely rewarding musical experiences that I could never have had "by ear." This stuff isn't for everyone, of course! But it's been great for me!

Thanks for the thread, Jeff!
Click to expand...
I've enjoyed a lot of show stuff, too. "Little Shop" was terrific fun. I'm hoping the theatre company I now play with will run it soon.

The most challenging in terms of both reading and playing was, perhaps surprisingly, "Fiddler on the Roof". Some very complex stuff in there. Thoroughly Modern Millie was a blast, as was Bugsy Malone.

I like show work. It's good reading practice and you often end up meeting some very cool folks. ;)
 
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