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JJ Helms Basses

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#21
I do get alot of requests from clients to build a bass that looks like this or build a bass that looks like that and short of actualy tracing someone else's templates I will use this or that as a basis for a body shape if that's what the client really wants, and of course I have my own particular design influences so some of that is going to show as well, but I draw my shapes by hand and make all my own templates. I did cop to copying the curbow, but I only ever built one of those and frankly I find the idea of being sued over it comical, seeing as how I don't see it affecting Curbow sales at all. I guess it really depends on your view of originality and how it relates to ownership, but by some arguments it seems to me that the Beatles should be getting royalities for nearly every pop album ever sold :confused:
 
#25
I can see a certain similarity, but which one are you talking about? I see two and only one that I designed. Anyway, it kinda bums me out that this thread has developed into "hey look what this bass looks like" rather than anything to have to do with the "business end" of a bass. From the very first bass I ever built to the ones that are on my bench now the one thing that's always held true and in my eyes is essential is that form follows function. Sure, we all want our basses to look "cool" but I've spent a hell of a lot more time studying and refining the function of my designs than what it takes to draw a decent looking body shape. I don't build them to display, I build them to play.
 
#26
I'm still going with "I'd give it a chance".

From what I can see they're well built and have some nice style.

But then as long as it doesn't look like a Spector-wick I'm happy.

I think that single cut looks really nice both on the materials side of things and the artistic/craft side of things.


Too bad I'm not in the market these days.
 
#27
I personnaly believe in try before you buy, or be able to accompany the building process, unless you've got some cash laying around you want to play lottery with. Looks can be deceiving especially if it's a builder you know nothing about. I've owned a bass built by Josh, and while the woodwork was nice, and he was a great guy to deal with, I didn't find the bass as a whole to my liking, but then again this was my personal experience
 
#28
Wolfehollow said:
agreed... I dont think its a bad thing to see this shape more often...
Click to expand...

As usual, I'm late to the party. :rolleyes:

I know that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery...but I hope this guy would have at least ran it by someone (Jake, Wolfe, ME) before you "reuse" someone's design. Maybe he did, but I never got no word from nobody....

fat-J said:
Dig the skarkb8, she's a tasty little nugget. Any singlecut that doesn't look like it's flying a big ol' boat sail gets a thumbs up from me
Click to expand...

I totally agree...she's super tasty. Heck of a gal. Just don't ask to play her. I don't share. :D
 
#29
I say who gives a flying ****! You can't see what it looks like when you hear it on a cd. If every builder had a completely "original" design there would be about 20x as many ugly as sin basses out there that no one would even pay attention to. The guy builds a nice looking bass that I can't vouch for but he claims has nice playability and is a worthy instrument. I've picked up Fender's, certain Warwick's, Spector's, Musicman's, Ibanez's, and a Modulus that I can't that much for. So I guess it really comes down to what kind of bassist you are. All about image or all about the sound. But that's just my .02 :hiding:
 
#30
Sorry sharkB8, but I can't even give an inspiration credit to a design that was brought to my attention by popping up in this thread. It actually comes of as a little arrogant for my taste to suggest the idea that I ask permission to use a design that I developed. Yours looks like real nice work, but I don't have any prior knowledge of your existance much less your work. We're both small fish in a really big pond regardless of how small you might think it is, but you don't see me saying I wish you would've asked my permission to do what you do. I'm sorry if it seems like I'm a little ticked off, but I know of at least one design for sure that I developed for a job and not only the design but the entire concept of that instrument was used by another builder. Yeah, it did kinda rub me the wrong way, but I didn't go and start a pissing contest over it. Just for the record, I've been asked to build basses that look like just about everything out there (including warwicks and spectors), but your name's never come up till now. :D . I don't mean any dissrespect to you or your work, but I never intended to flatter you by doing what I do either. The point I think we've gotten away from is that I build real basses for real players and I don't spend a month spraying sanding and buffing or $300 for a top wood if my clients don't want to pay for it. Perhapse I'm a black sheep in the custom bass comunity, but that's fine by me. All I want out of the whole thing is to stoke as many players as I can by giving them what I (and many of them) feel is better than available alternatives they can get for the same money and pay some bills in the process.

PS, sorry the bass wasn't what you were looking for Roc, but I appreciate the business it brought when you dropped it off at 5 star guitars :D
 
#32
HA! Finally a topic I know quite a bit about. First off. Who is "Marchlewski". I have been playing for over 40 years, and been in hundreds of different music stores in my travels, and NEVER heard of "Marchlewski Basses" But my point here is.. Don't flatter yourself Marchlewski. I am positive Josh did NOT copy your bass style. As a matter of fact I don't know if he has even heard of you. Of course you and all the other Luthiers that make nice basses are artists. But how many freakin ways do you think there are to carve a quality single cut bass?? ha ha ha Maybe you copied Helms' style?

I happen to own a Helms bass, and I can tell you ALL this. In my 40 years of playing I haven't EVER played a bass that plays or sounds as good as a Helms Bass for what mine cost.. I have played many custom basses, and the ones of the quality of my Helms bass cost at least $1000.00 more. His Set Neck design is fitted perfectly, and the Kent Armstrong pickups I got in mine reproduce the actual sound of the bass with no filtering. All the highs, mids, and lows come screaming through.

In short.. Don't knock them unless you've tried them! And if you haven't tried one you are really missing out on a AWESOME instrument!

Just my opinion. ;)
 
#33
It appears the cavalry has been sent... first off... here are some facts.

1. SharkB8 had his bass built... its not his work, so dont attack him.

2. Marchlewski isnt saying a word in this thread... so dont attack him either.

If you read my posts you will see that I just agreed that they looked similar and agreed that the shape should be made more often...

...your calvary took it upon themselves to attack other builders...
 
#34
Okay Wolfe. Point taken.. Let me edit that last post.

I happen to own a Helms bass, and I can tell you all this. In my 40 years of playing I haven't EVER played a bass that plays or sounds as good as a Helms Bass for what mine cost.. I have played many custom basses, and the ones of the quality of my Helms bass cost at least $1000.00 more. His Set Neck design is fitted perfectly, and the Kent Armstrong pickups I got in mine reproduce the actual sound of the bass with no filtering. All the highs, mids, and lows come screaming through.

In short.. Don't knock them unless you've tried them! And if you haven't tried one you are really missing out on a AWESOME instrument!

Better? :D
 
#36
socasaul said:
Okay Wolfe. Point taken.. Let me edit that last post.

I happen to own a Helms bass, and I can tell you all this. In my 40 years of playing I haven't EVER played a bass that plays or sounds as good as a Helms Bass for what mine cost.. I have played many custom basses, and the ones of the quality of my Helms bass cost at least $1000.00 more. His Set Neck design is fitted perfectly, and the Kent Armstrong pickups I got in mine reproduce the actual sound of the bass with no filtering. All the highs, mids, and lows come screaming through.

In short.. Don't knock them unless you've tried them! And if you haven't tried one you are really missing out on a AWESOME instrument!

Better? :D
Click to expand...

I dont knock the basses, im disscusing about the fact that Mr. Helms basses do look like other luthiers/companies basses.

I have been playing for almost 3 years and i do know about Marchlesky and many other underground luthiers (maybe thats not the best way to describe them but u get the point)
because i am interested in custom shops that have reasonable prices instead of fodera or alembic.
And those who own basses of those luthiers dont go store by store telling everyone "Do you know xxxxxxxx basses?"
 
#37
Hey Wolfehollow, gotta admit I too didn't do my research to try to seperate all of these entities tied to sharkB8's bass before posting my rebutle. But I can't really say anyone itroduced themselves either, and I didn't say anything I didn't mean. I tend to think I give respect where respect is due, but I also call it like I see it.The Cavalry remark though :bawl:

Allright, I'll say it, anyone out there that might somehow be considered part of the Helms Custom Bass cavalry please play nice. Only attacks directed at me personally will be tolerated in this thread. :eyebrow:
 
#38
This is ridiculous. I've met Jacob Marchlewski, and while I don't want to speak for him, I doubt he'd have anything negative to say about the JJ Helms design. As a designer and bass builder the only similartiy I see outside of the fact that both are single cut designs and the accent stripe is the little point on the upper horn. Is that what the argument is about? I recently had a friendly exchange with Pete Skjold over a design of mine that turned out looking similar to one of his designs. I'll swear up and down, all day long that my design is an original idea I came up with on my own and I didn't steal or borrow it from anyone. I had never seen the Skjold design until months after I finished mine. Still, there's no animosity between him and me. He invited me to the Dallas GTG. Because someone's design looks like somebody else's design doesn't mean it's stolen. It's extremely difficult to come up with a completely original design. If similarity is a bad thing than we might as well kill music. It shouldn't be hard to understand that most modern builders probably draw from the same influences. It should not be surprising that similarities are going to happen.
 
#40
Bud, Thanks for stepping up, and throwing in a little perspective from a builders point of view. You're right, this is stupid, and I know there's builders out there that will avoid building anything that looks too much anyone elses' designs and having been there (here now) myself I know exactly why. My point is that I do my best to satisfy the requests of the players that ask me to do work for them and alot of the time those requests involve specific design references. Even though I'd rather be working on designs that aren't very closely tied to someone else's work I really hate to tell a client to take a hike because he says, "I like it, but if you could make it a little more like a ???". I have a stack of body templates over 2 ft. thick because of customer requests that originated from an existing design that I tried to tweak enough so that I wouldn't feel like I was copying someone else, but still satisfy the guy paying for it. it's not the easiest thing to do, but I actually make an effort to avoid making "copies". People often times prove to be creatures of habbit an will tend to want to stick with something that seems familiar rather than something new and different. My origional designs don't see the light of day as often purely because I'm out there saying "hey players, bring me your ideas and let me build them". So you may see why when one of my designs that wasn't the result of a comissioned job, but something I created to my own satisfaction gets slandered as being Borrowed, stolen, whatever, I might be sitting here pulling my hair out over it. Still it's nice to see more than just critics in the crowd. I totally appreciate all the positive comments despite the opinions of the instigators and critics.
 
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