Double Bass John Scofield on Giant Steps

[bass player 53]

I’ve made reference to this elsewhere.
Slightly off topic, but too great not
to share.
One of my favorite Hal Galper performances. It’s a perfect study
on how to build a solo.

 

[ejnachtrab]

I personally agree with Scofield, I’d rather play Stella By Starlight. But also, as Carl Hilman and Oliebrice have already pointed out, Giant Steps is really a part of the process of Coltrane developing HIS LANGUAGE and he goes on to develop and use that language all the way through his career long after he’s done playing that actual tune.

On the ballad topic, the story is that Tommy Flanagan assumed it was a ballad when he saw the chart at the recording session. Trane really threw him under the bus on that one. I heard Tommy Flanagan in the early 90’s and he played the s#!+ out of Giant Steps.

Here’s a solid bossa take with Larry Grenadier and Bill Stewart.



And here’s Kenny Garrett playing the living snot out of it.

 

[dylanjohnson]

This?

It sounds unbelievable by the way thank you for the rec

Yeah, I think I heard Hal play it as a ballad as a kid. Metheny did the bossa thing with it, which gets poo pooed by the purists, but yes, it's doable it the same way a tune like Very Early is if it's not super fast. I hate playing it, but audiences know it now (especially young people from endless YouTube vids, and I'm not talking musicians) and it's nice to throw them a bone.

This version is bending my mind, he CON ALMAED IT!

 

[sean_on_bass]

When i started my jazz journey, i thought Giant Steps was some sort of requirement or pinnacle that would come up alot in my gigging life. After hundreds of gigs playing with local players, it's maybe been called a single time. I do think it's a cool tune, but it doesn't seem super relevant in the scene these days.

Anyways...another interesting version here. Arco ballad anyone? Then picks up for solos:

 

[wompwomp]

I think I read somewhere that Coltrane kind of thought of this tune as a warmup for himself and his band. I like it myself, and have played it with a few groups over the years, but it is kind of an "harmonically challenging exercise" kind of tune IMO.

more of a drill than a tune you could say. this is a super interesting convo!

I took a look at the sheet, it looks like fun. i've been having a lot of fun exploring novel harmonic relationships lately anyways so I'm gonna listen along with the reco's, get real familiar with the changes on guitar and bass and maybe i'll see if I can't do a walking thing at tempo lmao. good stuff!

 

[james condino]

There’s a level on which that chord progression is a parlor trick.

100%

 

[wompwomp]

more of a drill than a tune you could say. this is a super interesting convo!

I took a look at the sheet, it looks like fun. i've been having a lot of fun exploring novel harmonic relationships lately anyways so I'm gonna listen along with the reco's, get real familiar with the changes on guitar and bass and maybe i'll see if I can't do a walking thing at tempo lmao. good stuff!

update I learned the melody and changes last nite. also I gave it lyrics to help make the head more tuneful lmao:

Giant steps for you
and me
giant steps for us
giant steps
giant steps
giant steps!
GIANT STEPS!
for us!

 

[Kevin Hailey]

update I learned the melody and changes last nite. also I gave it lyrics to help make the head more tuneful lmao:

Giant steps for you
and me
giant steps for us
giant steps
giant steps
giant steps!
GIANT STEPS!
for us!

 

[Don Kasper]

Re: "...parlor trick"
Coltrane's mistake was that he only released a vinyl sound-recording of Giant Steps, instead of publishing and presenting a long-winded(!) academic paper (see what I did there?!) at a TheoryNerd Conference, entitled:
"Early Melodic Explorations of the Harmonically Trifurcated Octave in Mid-to-Later 20th Century Small-Group/Post-Bebop Jazz Performance and Practice."
"J.Coltrane, Et al."
FIFY!
IMFO, of course, as usual.
Tah Dah!

 

[JBarz]

Re: "...parlor trick"
Coltrane's mistake was that he only released a vinyl sound-recording of Giant Steps, instead of publishing and presenting a long-winded(!) academic paper (see what I did there?!) at a TheoryNerd Conference, entitled:
"Early Melodic Explorations of the Harmonically Trifurcated Octave in Mid-to-Later 20th Century Small-Group/Post-Bebop Jazz Performance and Practice."
"J.Coltrane, Et al."
FIFY!
IMFO, of course, as usual.
Tah Dah!

I don’t know why, but this makes me think about Nick Slonimsky (of thesaurus of scales and melodic materials fame) on Johnny Carson claiming the book was written as a joke in jest …



Yall seen this? Cracks me up.

 

[wompwomp]

Re: "...parlor trick"
Coltrane's mistake was that he only released a vinyl sound-recording of Giant Steps, instead of publishing and presenting a long-winded(!) academic paper (see what I did there?!) at a TheoryNerd Conference, entitled:
"Early Melodic Explorations of the Harmonically Trifurcated Octave in Mid-to-Later 20th Century Small-Group/Post-Bebop Jazz Performance and Practice."
"J.Coltrane, Et al."
FIFY!
IMFO, of course, as usual.
Tah Dah!

Idk but I think 'parlor trick' might be referring to the beat inversion in the head it's pretty slick

that poor pianist! wow that's a crazy bit. i'm spending a commensurate amount of time on a worthwhile tune here!

 

[Don Kasper]

the beat inversion in the head it's pretty slick

I have no idea what you're referring to.
Care to elaborate?
Thx.

 

[wompwomp]

I have no idea what you're referring to.
Care to elaborate?
Thx.

no prob, I just mean the 'and' becomes way more prominent the second time through, the first time through the melody there is something like a g roll at the end, it's like a punctuation mark.

 

[Don Kasper]

Allrighty, then.

 

[Boss Bass]

Besides John Coltrane's original version of this great song Giant Steps, I really enjoy listening to this version made by Rahsaan Roland Kirk from his 1976 album The Return Of The 5,000lb. Man. Did I play this song much along the way in my own journey? Hardly.

 

[Sean Riddle]

I’m in agreement with Scofield on this. Not only is there far more interesting music than Giant Steps to improvise off of, there is far more interesting music in Coltrane’s oeuvre to play and listen to IMO. For me personally, listening to Trane and Dolphy play on India from the Village Vanguard sessions was far more impactful and interesting to me than Giant Steps.

Again, Ollie Brice makes a great point that Giant Steps serves as a transition to Trane’s later work. None of it could have happened if he broke harmony with Giant Steps.

 

[Ed Fuqua]

FUN CONSPIRACY THEORY - a friend maintains (when we've all had enough wine) that many Coltrane compositions have had their titles mixed up by the record producer. He offers no real proof of this, just some anecdotal "coincidences", to wit:
IS IT GIANT STEPS OR 26-2? As evidenced by the video of "The ABC Song", the melody to Giant Steps is 26 notes payed twice through.

MOMENT'S NOTICE OR LAZYBIRD? Moment's Notice is a well-constructed harmonic progression with a distinctive rhythmic pattern that accompanies the melody in the opening bars and a pedal section that ends the complete form of the tune. Lazybird, on the other hand, is a rather simple melody (contrasted with the melody of Bobby Watson's contrafact E.T.A.) and a structure based on (what has come to be known as) "Trane changes". The title is similar to the Tadd Dameron tune LADYBIRD, a composition that has a distinctive rhythmic pattern that accompanies the melody in the opening bars. And which tune, MN or LB, sounds as if it were indeed written "at a moment's notice"? Likewise, which sounds as if the Dameron composition could have provided some structural information, at least rhythmically?

Anyway, it kind of reminds me a a George Mraz story - he's in the studio recording for ECM and Richie Beirach and after two or three abortive takes on an original of RB's stops in the middle of a take and says "shag you Richie, your tunes are too shaging hard, let's play a blues."
And just started playing a blues...

 

[Don Kasper]

Someone called Giant Steps on a Zoot Sims gig and he reportedly said "OK, but I've got my own changes".
Funny, even if it's not true.
IMFO, of course.

 

[JazznFunk]

He is kind of right. Yeah many people play it... badly. Bossa, really? Might as well not play it at all.

That's a bold statement. This *might* change your mind.

 

[bassmanbrent]

I used to hate playing this tune. Then I realized that this was because I didn’t know it very well and couldn’t play it well

I've had this realization about a few tunes over the years. It took me quite a while to figure out that the problem isn't usually the tune, it's usually me . My experience only of course. I'm certainly not implying that this applies to Chris or anybody else.