Jule Amps Monique part 4

[KJung]

I think you'll still be happy, Ken. I've run my Monique with the output at half (with my HPF in between giving me a boost to my amp's input) and with the output maxed. I can't say that there's enough difference that it's a psychological thing rather than an actual measurable one (let's talk fancy power cords). Also I personally, knowing (from your posting history) what you play can say that I don't think you're going to be furiously trying to max out your sensitivity or get any additional harmonic content by maxing the output. I'm going to guess that you're going to be comfortable in the same 'zone' as I play in or even less.

+1 Not really that worried. My previous post was just to explain the issue a bit better (i.e., has nothing to do with how 'hot' the power amp is running, just at what stage the 'hot' happens prior to hitting the actual power amp).

Just a little confused that this very simple question doesn't seem to be answered (although PJHandlin's post indicates it is relatively trivial).

I'll put it out there one more time IS THERE ANY NEGATIVE TO THE DE-MONIQUE ELIMINATING THE MASTER VOLUME OF THE MINNIE. IF THERE IS, THEN WHY WAS THIS DESIGN DECISION MADE?

Put another way, is there an ADVANTAGE to hitting the input stage of the Minnie with a very hot signal (or does that even add a tonal option that might be pleasing). If so, then WHY WOULD THIS OPTION BE REMOVED WHEN THE POWER AMP IS INSTALLED IN THE DE-MONIQUE. All that would be needed is an additional pot.

Again, seems like a very simple question that doesn't see to have an answer from the designer LIke you, I'm assuming it is subtle and not a big deal, but seems to warrant a detailed answer, since it is a little strange to 'leave pieces out' when installing the Minnie in the Tardis case!

 

[Mitchthebassplayer]

Actually, you are not understanding the issue. Pushing the Monique or not would have zero to do with running the power amp to full volume. And if you do, the limiting (assuming the Minnie is designed correctly) would kick in long before power amp clip.

Pushing the pre and turning down the amp's volume (which is basically just another level control pre-power amp) or cranking the pre and turning down the additional pre level control would have no differential impact on the level of signal hitting the power amp.

Jule is actually talking about a tube amp POWER section, not the preamp tubes.

It WOULD have a differential impact on the level of signal hitting the INPUT of the power amp section for sure, and too hot of a signal there might or might not be an ugly thing, depending on the design and input sensitivity of the power amp input stage.

However, per my point a few pages back, IF there is some advantage to running the power amp gain stage at lower volume and the preamp level hotter, then it astounds and disappoints me that the power amp level control was not included in the De-Monique. At this point, I will take Jule at his word that it is a trivial issue.

So you're saying there's no difference in sound running the Monique Line Level maxed and the Minnie at a low volume versus running Monique really low and cranking the Minnie? I've tried both and IMO/E there definitely is. I guess that might mean the De-Monique could sound a little different than having both separate units with a master for the power section....?

Edit: ah ok, so that's what you want to know. I guess Jule needs to chime in....without a separate vol for the power section, it would appear that De-Monique might sound different when cranked....

 

[Mitchthebassplayer]

+1 totally feel you.

FWIW I def hear a difference in sound in a good way when Monique is cranked versus cranking Minnie. So hopefully Jule can address why that last vol stage of the power section was removed. I'm sure it still sounds great either way, but since I def hear a difference, the user should have control over that IMO.

 

[Fat240]

Seems like the optimal solution would be to put a small master volume pot on the back of the amp, next to the fan switch to kind of set the overall output given the level setting that is most tonally pleasing at the volume that is needed.

This would let the user control how much output from the pre section to the power section and still allow you to control the overall volume. As many users with external amps, I believe run Monique that way. I wonder if the power scetion is continious 800 watts to the pre amp. I don't think I would prefer that method. I used to max my power amp and control the output with the Line level and after owning Monique for a while I prefer to run Monique with the pre close to maxed and control the output with the power amp as you mention. There can be quite a bit of difference between the two methods. That is a good question to ask before considering the De.

 

[maisbass]

I've been asking it since the day I ordered my DeMonique, and am getting quite a variety of answers. Unfortunately not from the designer, who basically emailed back 'don't worry about it'.



Might be time to rethink this order. I'm a bit unimpressed at this point with the response.

If James Demeter suggested for the Minnie to have a volume control, then it would be safe to assume the Demonique should have a volume for The power section as well. I too notice a difference in tone when varying the line output of Monique.

 

[maisbass]

But I also should add that I don't have a Minnie.

 

[KJung]

If James Demeter suggested for the Minnie to have a volume control, then it would be safe to assume the Demonique should have a volume for The power section as well. I too notice a difference in tone when varying the line output of Monique.

That is the logic I am kind of going with.

However, again, if this is kind of a 5% thing (i.e. if 95% of the tonal variation of the pre comes from the sensitivity control and the EQ, then of course, the current DeMonique spec should be just fine.

I am just a bit flumuxed about not being able to get a clear response to my concern, especially given the first response I got was 'it doesn't matter', and then Jule just posted above that he is now glad the Minnie has that master control.

Sorry for beating a dead horse, but even for me, $2,000+ is a LOT of money. Just need a little more reassurance that I am not getting 'less magic'

 

[Mitchthebassplayer]

If James Demeter suggested for the Minnie to have a volume control, then it would be safe to assume the Demonique should have a volume for The power section as well. I too notice a difference in tone when varying the line output of Monique.

I have Minnie #1, which was technically a custom order by Demeter since I ordered it directly from James and he had yet to make one since he still needed a chassis from Jule. James asked me what I wanted it to look like, and I said I wanted the power switch and master vol to be on the front. He was using the power section in his own rackmount preamps, so if anything I think it was originally intended to be used the way De-Monique works. The Master vol on the Minnie was done by request.

 

[Fat240]

As with any pre/power amp that is intergrated you cannot control the output of the pre section to the power section as you could with two seperate components. That might be why some try different tube combos in their preamps or drive it with a Sansamp or other external gear. Or companys add gain, dirt knobs. That's why I like mine seperate. I'm sure that DeMonique was built under the same model as any other hybrid amp minuis the gain or dirt knob

 

[Mark Sacchetti]

I haven't had any issues getting "loud" enough with the DeM Tardis. I set the overall volume with the line level, leaving some room on the volume control my bass for extra boost.

As far as what sounds better the separates or the all in one. I've only the Tardis to judge by.

I love the tone , feel, and responsiveness of this amp and haven't had any issues using it in various setting from small quiet to obnoxiously loud. Hope this helps

 

[nostatic]

While I agree that a single unit is an "easier" schlep, for me the dove cage is just so aesthetically pleasing that it was a no-brainer. So I was forced into the separates, and don't have any complaints gigging about 8-10x a month with the Monique/Minnie combo.

That said I do like the Tardis form factor so I get that approach as well. It just isn't as cool as the dove cage to my eye. Plus the dove cage never fails to be a conversation starter at gigs.

 

[Mark Sacchetti]

Is this the question.
If by design the power amp in the Tardis is to be at full gain or wide open, using the line level and sensitivity knobs to adjust overall volume. Is this harmful to the Tardis?
I haven't noticed anything other than the Tardis performing as it should and doing everything it's tasked to do.

Perhaps it's just a different way of achieving the desired goal. I don't miss a master volume control.

 

[Fat240]

I haven't had any issues getting "loud" enough with the DeM Tardis. I set the overall volume with the line level, leaving some room on the volume control my bass for extra boost.

As far as what sounds better the separates or the all in one. I've only the Tardis to judge by.

I love the tone , feel, and responsiveness of this amp and haven't had any issues using it in various setting from small quiet to obnoxiously loud. Hope this helps

Is the preamp volume knob adjusting the amount of watts or attenuating the volume of 800 continuous watts? As I understand the operation of most amps, it's the latter scenario. They're always pumping the rated wattage through all the time no matter where the volume knob is turned.

I belive that to be so and it is all controlled with the one volume. The only thing you lose with the DeMonique is the ability to hit the power section of the amp without the added output volume. I can mic a cab in the studio and turn the line out until I start to clip the power and back it off till I find my sweet spot without affecting the output volume. It is like the DI out on any Monique it bypasses the Line Out as not to overdrive studio and sound gear.

 

[KJung]

Is the preamp volume knob adjusting the amount of watts or attenuating the volume of 800 continuous watts? As I understand the operation of most amps, it's the latter scenario. They're always pumping the rated wattage through all the time no matter where the volume knob is turned.

No. An amp puts out wattage based on the strength of the signal going into it. An amp can actually put out its full wattage at almost any 'master volume' level. No knob on any amp 'controls the power directly', just the input signal hitting the power amp.

This is unrelated to the issue we are discussing.

 

[KJung]

Is this the question.
If by design the power amp in the Tardis is to be at full gain or wide open, using the line level and sensitivity knobs to adjust overall volume. Is this harmful to the Tardis?
I haven't noticed anything other than the Tardis performing as it should and doing everything it's tasked to do.

Perhaps it's just a different way of achieving the desired goal. I don't miss a master volume control.

No, there would be no 'harm' at all. +1

Here it is in a nutshell. IF the separate component system sounds exactly identical at any ratio of Monique level to Minnie master volume, then this is a moot issue. However, IF there is meaningful and useful tonal variation achieved by, at one extreme, running the Monique level very low with the master on the Minnie cranked (the only option for lower volume playing with the DeMonique), versus, on the other extreme, really cranking the level on the Monique and dialing down the master of the Minnie (achieving the same absolute volume both ways), then the De-Monique does not have the tonal range capability of the components.

Again, if this is quite subtle (and Jule emailed me a while back that it was), all is good, and I would expect it to be no big deal. However, after the 5 or 6 posters above who feel the rig sounds better with the Minnie master dialed low and the preamp cranked, I wanted to confirm with Jule one more time that there would be absolutely no difference in functionality between the DeMonique and the separate component system.

I have not heard back from him. This in no way suggests the DeMonique doesn't sound good or that there is something wrong, but rather that it might be missing some functionality. If that is 5%, I'm good. If it is significant (i.e., that most greatly prefer the level cranked for tone, and then control their volume with the Minnie master) I will probably change my order to the component system.

Again, sorry for beating this dead horse, especially since my gut says it is most likely a very subtle issue. However, I am still confused as to why the designer cannot simply address this issue so I (and others) can make an informed decision.

 

[Lia_G]

Have you tried calling him for a detailed conversation?

Liam

 

[KJung]

Have you tried calling him for a detailed conversation?

Liam

No, I guess I can do that if for some reason I still can't get an answer either through email or on this thread. Again, I DID get a response ('don't worry about it'), a while back, and thought I was good, and then this all happen (i.e., most saying 'it does matter', and like the gain structure the best that is not possible with the DeMonique)

I again thought that a quick post by Jule on this thread would possibly be helpful to others trying to decide on the configuration they want, and am hoping that happens quickly.

Again, my guess is, I will stick with all-in-one (really don't particularly like the component concept much myself. I just want to know what I am giving up tonally, and also why the decision was made to vary the DeMonique spec from the components.

 

[Lia_G]

I again thought that a quick post by Jule on this thread would possibly be helpful to others trying to decide on the configuration they want, and am hoping that happens quickly.

+1.

Good luck, whatever you decide!

Liam

 

[KJung]

+1.

Good luck, whatever you decide!

Liam

It will work out one way or the other for sure. No sweat, and hopefully the information will help others making a decision also.

 

[BurningSkies]

Jule is an awesome dude to talk with on the phone (and I'm actually NOT much of a phone person). When there was some back and forth with my rack Monique (ended up on being a strange tube failure), he and I had a number of great conversations about Monique, music and whatever else.