Jule Amps Monique part 4

[KJung]

Jule is an awesome dude to talk with on the phone (and I'm actually NOT much of a phone person). When there was some back and forth with my rack Monique (ended up on being a strange tube failure), he and I had a number of great conversations about Monique, music and whatever else.

I'm enjoying just thinking through this stuff. The Monique seems like quite a unique piece of gear. If it was the standard 'pre gain, master' preamp, this would all be a bit of a moot point also, but as you pointed out to me, the 'sensitivity control' is not in any way like the typical 'pre gain' control of, for example, a hybrid all in one amp (i.e., it really isn't an 'input gain level control' like most other pre's). So, this is a totally new design/functionality for me (conceptually), and is driving my interest in just what the different level controls do when you have the ability to control overall volume with the Minnie master.

I'm really looking forward to getting it, and again, will almost surely stay with the DeMonique model. Just would enjoy a touch more info on the decision to 'change' the spec a bit from the component system.

 

[BurningSkies]

I'm enjoying just thinking through this stuff. The Monique seems like quite a unique piece of gear. If it was the standard 'pre gain, master' preamp, this would all be a bit of a moot point also, but as you pointed out to me, the 'sensitivity control' is not in any way like the typical 'pre gain' control of, for example, a hybrid all in one amp (i.e., it really isn't an 'input gain level control' like most other pre's). So, this is a totally new design/functionality for me (conceptually), and is driving my interest in just what the different level controls do when you have the ability to control overall volume with the Minnie master.

I'm really looking forward to getting it, and again, will almost surely stay with the DeMonique model. Just would enjoy a touch more info on the decision to 'change' the spec a bit from the component system.

As much as Jule's preamp has its 'feet' in some of the 'classic' tube designs of the past, his approach is a bit different and for those of us around here who tend to be really nuts and bolts techie, his approach to the documentation and discussion of his work is much 'softer' (think 'arts' vs. 'sciences'), although in my discussions with Jule, he is one of the most technically knowledgeable people you'll meet. I felt like I walked away from a few hours of phone conversations knowing much more what goes into amp design and tube performance, etc.

I was one of the initial voices that came up in reference to the output level situation in relation to bass players using the Monique as a front end for a PA style power amp (the rack mount sort of pressed that issue, obviously), and the result was adjustments to the design. So, he's happy and open to discuss, explain and even explore possibilities.

Things were a bit bumpy for me on the front side too. Wonky problems with what ended up being tubes, etc. But I was feeling frustrated that it looked like I might need an additional preamp stage to get enough level to my power amp (another gain stage, more 'stuff' in the way between pre and amp, additional cost, less tidy rig, etc.), Jule went back to the drawing board worked with James D. on output levels, DID boost the output level (pre adding the push/pull) somewhat IIRC (using the second 'half' of the 12AU7), etc. In the meantime, the manual for Monique went from "it sounds good, twist knobs, plug it in and play...it'll sound good!" to actually having a bit more actual documentation on levels, etc.

 

[KJung]

As much as Jule's preamp has its 'feet' in some of the 'classic' tube designs of the past, his approach is a bit different and for those of us around here who tend to be really nuts and bolts techie, his approach to the documentation and discussion of his work is much 'softer' (think 'arts' vs. 'sciences'), although in my discussions with Jule, he is one of the most technically knowledgeable people you'll meet. I felt like I walked away from a few hours of phone conversations knowing much more what goes into amp design and tube performance, etc.

I was one of the initial voices that came up in reference to the output level situation in relation to bass players using the Monique as a front end for a PA style power amp (the rack mount sort of pressed that issue, obviously), and the result was adjustments to the design. So, he's happy and open to discuss, explain and even explore possibilities.

Things were a bit bumpy for me on the front side too. Wonky problems with what ended up being tubes, etc. But I was feeling frustrated that it looked like I might need an additional preamp stage to get enough level to my power amp (another gain stage, more 'stuff' in the way between pre and amp, additional cost, less tidy rig, etc.), Jule went back to the drawing board worked with James D. on output levels, DID boost the output level (pre adding the push/pull) somewhat IIRC (using the second 'half' of the 12AU7), etc. In the meantime, the manual for Monique went from "it sounds good, twist knobs, plug it in and play...it'll sound good!" to actually having a bit more actual documentation on levels, etc.

You have been very helpful to me in this. Your comment about 'more art than science' totally explains my mild frustration. When I read the manual, I feel like I should light some incense and listen to Ravi Shankar

So, I'll just relax a bit, realizing this continues to be a work in progress. Jule definitely has a different approach and personality than my 'by the numbers' personality

Hopefully this on-line discussion might either give Jule some 'food for thought' with the DeMonique design, are at least get him thinking a bit about how to communicate the impact of the various levels of the signal chain in the manual, etc.

All is good!

 

[BurningSkies]

To that end, Jule has created a preamp that is closer to an 'instrument' than any other I've used, which in my mind is a good thing, given that and amp really part of our 'instrument'.

 

[nostatic]

To that end, Jule has created a preamp that is closer to an 'instrument' than any other I've used, which in my mind is a good thing, given that and amp really part of our 'instrument'.

^^^ in the end you "play" Monique, rather than twiddle the knobs to get a tone. While that may sound towards the crystal rubbing side of things, it is really the only bass amp that reminds me of great tube guitar amps in that regard. While I typically have loved to break things down analytically in the past, this is an amp that really doesn't go there. Hard to explain. And one reason I still favor the dove cage. The art on the outside matches the art on the inside.

Did I mention I love the dove cage?

 

[BurningSkies]

^^^ in the end you "play" Monique, rather than twiddle the knobs to get a tone. While that may sound towards the crystal rubbing side of things, it is really the only bass amp that reminds me of great tube guitar amps in that regard. While I typically have loved to break things down analytically in the past, this is an amp that really doesn't go there. Hard to explain. And one reason I still favor the dove cage. The art on the outside matches the art on the inside.

Did I mention I love the dove cage?

See, if Jule had only ever had the dove cage version, I would probably never gone there. The rack really made it workable for me. What I didn't need was yet another something to keep in another case to keep an eyeball on in my vehicle, while moving stuff and on stage. The 'rack' form while not nearly as visually appealing is really what makes sense for me.

 

[juledude]

When I read the manual, I feel like I should light some incense and listen to Ravi Shankar

All is good!

Yes.

 

[KJung]

See, if Jule had only ever had the dove cage version, I would probably never gone there. The rack really made it workable for me. What I didn't need was yet another something to keep in another case to keep an eyeball on in my vehicle, while moving stuff and on stage. The 'rack' form while not nearly as visually appealing is really what makes sense for me.

Jule bounced me back, and I'm good to go with the DeMonique. He sent me his number and offered to talk through it ('subtle but complicated differences' is the way he described it, and subtle is fine with me.... just wanted to make sure it was not 'more than subtle'!).

I don't do racks any more, and while the Dove Cage is beautiful, it just doesn't work with the way I schlep my gear as well as the all in one amp head thing.

So, looks like my Tardis ships to Demeter in early November, with an estimated 2-3 weeks for the DeMonique transformation. So, I'm assuming first week of December for delivery!

Thanks Jule.

 

[KJung]

Yes.

 

[Mark Sacchetti]

Jule you crack me up!!!

 

[juledude]

No, there would be no 'harm' at all. +1

Here it is in a nutshell. IF the separate component system sounds exactly identical at any ratio of Monique level to Minnie master volume, then this is a moot issue. However, IF there is meaningful and useful tonal variation achieved by, at one extreme, running the Monique level very low with the master on the Minnie cranked (the only option for lower volume playing with the DeMonique), versus, on the other extreme, really cranking the level on the Monique and dialing down the master of the Minnie (achieving the same absolute volume both ways), then the De-Monique does not have the tonal range capability of the components.

Again, if this is quite subtle (and Jule emailed me a while back that it was), all is good, and I would expect it to be no big deal. However, after the 5 or 6 posters above who feel the rig sounds better with the Minnie master dialed low and the preamp cranked, I wanted to confirm with Jule one more time that there would be absolutely no difference in functionality between the DeMonique and the separate component system.

I have not heard back from him. This in no way suggests the DeMonique doesn't sound good or that there is something wrong, but rather that it might be missing some functionality. If that is 5%, I'm good. If it is significant (i.e., that most greatly prefer the level cranked for tone, and then control their volume with the Minnie master) I will probably change my order to the component system.

Again, sorry for beating this dead horse, especially since my gut says it is most likely a very subtle issue. However, I am still confused as to why the designer cannot simply address this issue so I (and others) can make an informed decision.

The decision to add a volume control to the Minnie was a business decision made by James Demeter, with my agreement, so that the Minnie could be more easily used by players who do not own Monique (even a Demeter preamplifier?). I am glad he added it to the Minnie. He deserves and has earned a wider audience.

That is why it is there.

 

[KJung]

The decision to add a volume control to the Minnie was a business decision made by James Demeter, with my agreement, so that the Minnie could be more easily used by players who do not own Monique (even a Demeter preamplifier?). I am glad he added it to the Minnie. He deserves and has earned a wider audience.

That is why it is there.

I look forward to my DeMonique in late Nov/early Dec. Thanks.

 

[Jazzdogg]

With a name like DeMonique, I can't help but wonder if this is the best amp ever for halloween gigs...

 

[nostatic]

See, if Jule had only ever had the dove cage version, I would probably never gone there. The rack really made it workable for me. What I didn't need was yet another something to keep in another case to keep an eyeball on in my vehicle, while moving stuff and on stage. The 'rack' form while not nearly as visually appealing is really what makes sense for me.

I get that. One the flip side, if he only had a rack version I likely wouldn't have pulled the trigger as I don't haul my gear that way. I've got my load in/out down to a science, I'm only dealing with my gear, and the dove cage fits fairly well for my shows. If I was tossing my stuff in a van, that's another story. Different strokes.

That said, I have been pondering a Tardis, as I like that form factor. Though I'm really holding out for a little side project that has more glowing bottles of goodness

 

[tombowlus]

('subtle but complicated differences' is the way he described it

+1 That sounds about right.

 

[maisbass]

The decision to add a volume control to the Minnie was a business decision made by James Demeter, with my agreement, so that the Minnie could be more easily used by players who do not own Monique (even a Demeter preamplifier?). I am glad he added it to the Minnie. He deserves and has earned a wider audience.

That is why it is there.

That makes perfect sense. I guess we are all artists here and sometimes we overlook the business side to these decisions.

 

[Quackhead]

For me it is merely a question of money. The rack or Tardis version is $115 less than the dovecage. This is going to be a big purchase for me when I actually pull the trigger. Musically the only thing I've ever spent more on was a used Modulus Q5. An added positive is that the rack (or Tardis) would be easier to schlep.

I don't do racks any more, and while the Dove Cage is beautiful, it just doesn't work with the way I schlep my gear as well as the all in one amp head thing.

 

[Insouciance]

Quick question but first a little background...

I have been a solid state user for years, until a few weeks ago I found an Ampeg SVT II non pro. The low end is unreal, much more prominent and massive, not to mention responsive. I A/B'd the SVT last night in a jam, and the second I used my solid state rig (a Sunn Beta preamp and a Crest CA9) I could notice a HUGE difference.

My question is it just the Sunn preamp's "solid stateness" that is responsible for this loss of low end clarity? I had been planning on running a stereo rig with Monique and another hi-fi tube preamp, but I got this SVT II at a steal...now I am torn.

 

[BurningSkies]

Quick question but first a little background...

I have been a solid state user for years, until a few weeks ago I found an Ampeg SVT II non pro. The low end is unreal, much more prominent and massive, not to mention responsive. I A/B'd the SVT last night in a jam, and the second I used my solid state rig (a Sunn Beta preamp and a Crest CA9) I could notice a HUGE difference.

My question is it just the Sunn preamp's "solid stateness" that is responsible for this loss of low end clarity? I had been planning on running a stereo rig with Monique and another hi-fi tube preamp, but I got this SVT II at a steal...now I am torn.

Loss of lows and clarity doesn't necessarily source from 'solid state'. There are a million different design choices that could lead to different tonal end product.

 

[chadds]

Almost too many to list!!