Jule Amps Monique part 4

[John D Harris]

Since we have Crest Pro Lite users here, and the online manual needs Indiana Jones to find, can y'all confirm that it easily takes a single input and splits it into each output? The Crown XLS requires I select a crossover point, or cheat by using a Y cable at the input.

The following was copied & pasted from www.prosoundnetwork.com (w/bolded text by me for emphasis) --

____________________________________
Crest Audio Pro-LITE 3.0 Power Amplifiers
By PAR Editorial Staff 06.15.2011
Crest Audio has introduced the Pro-LITE 3.0 and Pro-LITE 3.0 DSP power amplifiers, built on an advanced, high-speed class D design with a switch-mode power supply that reduces weight while increasing reliability, thermal efficiency and output power. The Pro-LITE 3.0 and Pro-LITE 3.0 DSP boast 870 watts per channel at 4 ohms stereo (up to 3,150 watts bridged @ 4 ohms), weigh 13.3 lbs., with parallel, stereo and bridged modes. The Pro-LITE's power supply allows these amplifiers to deliver consistent, stable performance with low frequencies and at 2-ohm operation. The Crest Audio Pro-LITE 3.0 DSP features an onboard digital signal processor that hosts a suite of delays (0-120ms per channel), adjustable crossovers, adjustable limiters, parametric EQ, HF driver EQ, four user preset storage locations, and stereo/mono operation with lockable security settings. The front-panel LCD screen allows users to quickly identify and assign presets, while the USB port allows users to load presets and enables external setup and adjustment. The Pro-LITE DSP section also integrates Waves MaxxBass Bass Extension technology, which uses psycho-acoustics to create precise harmonics that give the perceived effect of boosting low frequencies in the mix. The level of MaxxBass effect can be adjusted from 0% to 100%.
Crest Audio Pro-LITE Series amplifiers feature two channels with channel-independent, fourth order 100 Hz crossovers housed in a steel chassis. The proprietary ACL Automatic Clip Limiting circuitry prevents the amplifier from sending potentially damaging clipped signals to the loudspeakers. Additional onboard protection circuitry includes DC, Temp, Signal and Active safeguards, all referenced on the front panel with LED indicators.
Prices: $599 and $799 (Pro-LITE 3.0 and Pro-LITE 3.0 DSP, respectively)
Contact: Crest Audio | crestaudio.com
- See more at: http://www.prosoundnetwork.com/arti...0-power-amplifiers/13026#sthash.u9MycC77.dpuf
____________________________________

Street prices at this time appear to be $479 & $679, respectively.

 

[John D Harris]

Since we have Crest Pro Lite users here, and the online manual needs Indiana Jones to find, can y'all confirm that it easily takes a single input and splits it into each output? The Crown XLS requires I select a crossover point, or cheat by using a Y cable at the input.

This is from Crest's website for the Pro-Lite 3.0 (w/ bolding by me) --

Specifications

3,150W bridged at 4 ohms @ 1%
1,770W bridged at 8 ohms @ 1%
870W per channel at 4 ohms @ <0.1%
450W per channel at 8 ohms @ <0.1%
1,575W per channel at 2 ohms @ <0.1%
13.3 lbs.
Parallel/Bridge/Stereo mode switch
ACL Automatic Clip Limiting
Revolutionary Pro-LITE class D topology
Detented input controls
Combi Neutrik® XLR-¼" inputs
Speakon® output connectors
XLR thru connector
Two channel-independent fourth order crossovers

 

[monsterthompson]

Hand holding is much appreciated.

 

[John D Harris]

I'm just here for all my brother & sister followers of the Low Frequency Muse (otherwise known as the LFMF).

 

[juledude]

Its a pretty wide open field. Look for one with an input sensitivity between .775 and 1.4 or so, and you should be good. Ones in the 2+ range will probably be looking for more signal that Monique really wants to give. I use a Peavey IPR, and have been for about a year and a half with no difficulties.

I know of the Power Physics Class D amplifier module that by itself requires about 4 volts RMS to go to full power. The Power Physics module usually gets an additional pre-boost circuit installed so that it can work at the +10db (1.4 volt) level. Still, it (Input Sensitivity) is a good thing to confirm in any amplifier.

All the Crests, Crowns, QSCs and such are nicely engineered to work with 1.4 volt or less input sensitivities. Other than the Power Physics module, I am not aware of others that require more input level than that.

The other end of the picture is important too. Every Class D amp has a higher end Input Level (maximum) that will make the amp clip. It is almost never documented. Too much signal into a Class D amp will not only sound nasty, it will make the amp heat up very quickly. The potential is there for damaging the amp.

Due to the wise and cherished counsel of Monique folk, the original .775 0db level is there when the Line Level knob is "in" and you can get as much as +13db (more than 1.4volt RMS) with the Line Level knob "out."

 

[BurningSkies]

I know of the Power Physics Class D amplifier module that by itself requires about 4 volts RMS to go to full power. The Power Physics module usually gets an additional pre-boost circuit installed so that it can work at the +10db (1.4 volt) level. Still, it (Input Sensitivity) is a good thing to confirm in any amplifier.

All the Crests, Crowns, QSCs and such are nicely engineered to work with 1.4 volt or less input sensitivities. Other than the Power Physics module, I am not aware of others that require more input level than that.

The other end of the picture is important too. Every Class D amp has a higher end Input Level (maximum) that will make the amp clip. It is almost never documented. Too much signal into a Class D amp will not only sound nasty, it will make the amp heat up very quickly. The potential is there for damaging the amp.

Due to the wise and cherished counsel of Monique folk, the original .775 0db level is there when the Line Level knob is "in" and you can get as much as +13db (more than 1.4volt RMS) with the Line Level knob "out."

Jule, just a quick question. What's the turn-around these days on updates/ upgrades for a rack Monique? I haven't wanted to let it out of my hands, but if we end up with a pause in our schedule, I'll think about sending it in your direction (although I'm loathe to send it across country for a 4th trip). Also, what changes/updates are on the docket these days, I think mine is close to 'original' if not just having a tweak or two from when it first headed home to you.

 

[Jeff Moote]

I received a dovecage Monique from TB'er wrp last week and finally had a chance to plug her in tonight. It's everything I expected for sure, and then some. Not only does it sound incredible, but there are a lot of subtle differences you can achieve with the Sensitivity knob alone never mind the EQ.

 

[B'Boom]

According to you, which is the best settle between the monique's output volume and the Minnie's output volume ( in term of sound quality and reliability of these magnificent devices ).
Do I have to take up very high volume of Monique's output and then adjust Minnie's volume according to my needs for decibels or is it the opposite?

 

[KJung]

According to you, which is the best settle between the monique's output volume and the Minnie's output volume ( in term of sound quality and reliability of these magnificent devices ).
Do I have to take up very high volume of Monique's output and then adjust Minnie's volume according to my needs for decibels or is it the opposite?

This was discussed a bit above when I ordered my De-Monique, since that 'all in one version' eliminates the master volume control of the Minnie.

So, assuming the De-Monique is basically the same as the Minnie with its volume control at max, it seems that is the optimal 'designed' way to run that set-up, using the line level as your volume control.

However, I guess the advantage of having that volume control on the component version is that for lower volume gigs, you can dial that down, resulting in a bit easier ability to fine tune your volume with the level control. I would also assume (and verified I believe by a post by PJHANDLIN a few pages ago when we were discussing this) that there would be some subtle tonal differences in really pushing the level into the mini and then dialing down the absolute volume with the master on the Minnie.

So, it seems you really can't do any wrong (other than use the 'pull boost' on the level control of the Monique into the Minnie, which is not needed).

Edit: I'm posting this to make sure I am understanding the gain structure correctly, versus really knowing the answer, so Monique experts and or Jule will hopefully chime in to either verify or fix!

 

[B'Boom]

Okay, thank you.
P.S : I don't use pull boost on the line level control with minnie 800D.

 

[nostatic]

I tend to run my line level at 3:00 or higher into Minnie and use the master on Minnie to control overall volume. My bias is to hit the front end of the power section harder but that may just be force of habit.

 

[Mitchthebassplayer]

I tend to run my line level at 3:00 or higher into Minnie and use the master on Minnie to control overall volume. My bias is to hit the front end of the power section harder but that may just be force of habit.

+1 I do this as well. Set my sensitivity based on which bass I'm playing, keep the line level between 1 o'clock and max for "master" volume, and the actual master vol on the Minnie stays at about 9 o'clock but if I need more, it's there!

 

[KJung]

+1 I do this as well. Set my sensitivity based on which bass I'm playing, keep the line level between 1 o'clock and max for "master" volume, and the actual master vol on the Minnie stays at about 9 o'clock but if I need more, it's there!

Yeah, I don't think you can really go wrong, since these pieces of gear are designed to work together. And, again, there most likely are subtle differences between hitting the power amp a bit harder and then throttling it down versus the power amp running at max and then using the line level as your volume control.

 

[matt thompson]

I tend to run my line level at 3:00 or higher into Minnie and use the master on Minnie to control overall volume. My bias is to hit the front end of the power section harder but that may just be force of habit.

Yea Ive had it both ways, but i definitely prefer the line level high going into the Minine - just has a better character to my ears.

This is my "default" when I start a soundcheck

 

[BurningSkies]

Yea Ive had it both ways, but i definitely prefer the line level high going into the Minine - just has a better character to my ears.

This is my "default" when I start a soundcheck

You also push your sensitivity pretty hard. I tend to let mine ride between noon and two for my comfort zone, and occasionally roll it back to about 10 for a cleaner/clearer tone. I'm guessing you are trying to maximize the 'beef' or the hotter more compressed aspect of what the Monique can do.

 

[maisbass]

Yea Ive had it both ways, but i definitely prefer the line level high going into the Minine - just has a better character to my ears.

This is my "default" when I start a soundcheck

Me too. While I dont have a Minnie, I am presently running my line out around 3:30-4:00, and have the master on my Puma 900 about 9:00. Eq is generally flat but will make some slight adjustments due to room acoustics. I run the sensitivity anywhere between 11:00 and 12:00. I am also using an Fdeck series 3 between my bass and monique as well.

I noticed if I run the line out maxed into the Puma 900, it gets too edgy and crunchy for my taste, even though the fx return of the Puma is .775 0db which would lead one to believe the Monique line out should be pushed in and maxed to match level. Probably what is happening is that my level is a bit hotter since I am cranking the sensitivity a bit too on Monique which forces me to turn down the line out on Monique a bit. Also, as Jule noted, going too hot into the power section of some of these micros can get a bit nasty sounding, and not in a good way.

When I use it with my crest pro lite I can keep the line out wide open with no issues at all, but I tend to still run it at around 4:00 just because Im a creature of habit. LOL!

 

[juledude]

Me too. While I dont have a Minnie, I am presently running my line out around 3:30-4:00, and have the master on my Puma 900 about 9:00. Eq is generally flat but will make some slight adjustments due to room acoustics. I run the sensitivity anywhere between 11:00 and 12:00. I am also using an Fdeck series 3 between my bass and monique as well.

I noticed if I run the line out maxed into the Puma 900, it gets too edgy and crunchy for my taste, even though the fx return of the Puma is .775 0db which would lead one to believe the Monique line out should be pushed in and maxed to match level. Probably what is happening is that my level is a bit hotter since I am cranking the sensitivity a bit too on Monique which forces me to turn down the line out on Monique a bit. Also, as Jule noted, going too hot into the power section of some of these micros can get a bit nasty sounding, and not in a good way.

When I use it with my crest pro lite I can keep the line out wide open with no issues at all, but I tend to still run it at around 4:00 just because Im a creature of habit. LOL!

You are right as to the .775 level being the "pushed in" level of Monique.

Yes. This "level" question between the amplifier and Monique is very much a question of taste. There is no harm in running the amplifier full "on" and using Monique for your level control.

As I think I mentioned before, I didn't think the Minnie needed a volume control originally. James wisely overruled me.

The idea was to be able to leave the Line Level push-pull switch pushed in and get full volume with the Minnie. That was just the original intent. Doesn't mean we can't pull the Line Level out and still get what we want.

These Class D amps will let us know immediately when they are clipping. Not pretty. I'd stay away from too much of that in the interests of longevity with any solid state amplifier.

This is an area where tube amps have an advantage. A tube amp that clips the power section will continue to comfortably do so as long as we like. But I digress.

Back to the bench.

 

[Mitchthebassplayer]

+1

I agree and would rather be pushing Monique to it's limits since it has tubes and cinemags rather than running the Minnie hot and waiting for the class D amp to clip....yuck

 

[KJung]

+1

I agree and would rather be pushing Monique to it's limits since it has tubes and cinemags rather than running the Minnie hot and waiting for the class D amp to clip....yuck

Actually, you are not understanding the issue. Pushing the Monique or not would have zero to do with running the power amp to full volume. And if you do, the limiting (assuming the Minnie is designed correctly) would kick in long before power amp clip.

Pushing the pre and turning down the amp's volume (which is basically just another level control pre-power amp) or cranking the pre and turning down the additional pre level control would have no differential impact on the level of signal hitting the power amp.

Jule is actually talking about a tube amp POWER section, not the preamp tubes.

It WOULD have a differential impact on the level of signal hitting the INPUT of the power amp section for sure, and too hot of a signal there might or might not be an ugly thing, depending on the design and input sensitivity of the power amp input stage.

However, per my point a few pages back, IF there is some advantage to running the power amp gain stage at lower volume and the preamp level hotter, then it astounds and disappoints me that the power amp level control was not included in the De-Monique. At this point, I will take Jule at his word that it is a trivial issue.

 

[BurningSkies]

Actually, you are not understanding the issue. Pushing the Monique or not would have zero to do with running the power amp to full volume. And if you do, the limiting (assuming the Minnie is designed correctly) would kick in long before power amp clip.

Pushing the pre and turning down the amp's volume (which is basically just another level control pre-power amp) or cranking the pre and turning down the additional pre level control would have no differential impact on the level of signal hitting the power amp.

Jule is actually talking about a tube amp POWER section, not the preamp tubes.

It WOULD have a differential impact on the level of signal hitting the INPUT of the power amp section for sure, and too hot of a signal there might or might not be an ugly thing, depending on the design and input sensitivity of the power amp input stage.

However, per my point a few pages back, IF there is some advantage to running the power amp gain stage at lower volume and the preamp level hotter, then it astounds and disappoints me that the power amp level control was not included in the De-Monique. At this point, I will take Jule at his word that it is a trivial issue.

I think you'll still be happy, Ken. I've run my Monique with the output at half (with my HPF in between giving me a boost to my amp's input) and with the output maxed. I can't say that there's enough difference that it's a psychological thing rather than an actual measurable one (let's talk fancy power cords). Also I personally, knowing (from your posting history) what you play can say that I don't think you're going to be furiously trying to max out your sensitivity or get any additional harmonic content by maxing the output. I'm going to guess that you're going to be comfortable in the same 'zone' as I play in or even less.