Jule Amps Monique part 5

[BurningSkies]

Have you played the Monique 700!? It is about three times as loud as It should be.....
I would put this in the ballpark of a 1200 watt amp with the most insane burst power.
I have never heard a power section quite like as it stays uber hifi whilst kicking you like a mule.
I have yet to hear a speaker with this amp that I can't take to the mechanical limit
by 10 o'clock on the volume.

I haven't heard it yet...but then I'm playing my Monique with a 3000w power amp into 2 fEARful 15's.

 

[BurningSkies]

If you have a pic of the Kern opened up I could tell you. I have those same Ice modules here and am putting the big one (1200 watts) into a pre of mine. The smaller one (in eveything from GK to Puma900 to Minnie) can fit into a single rack space. I could tell you from looking. They're actually pretty easy to install---a hellava lot easier than I would have thought. Any electronics repairman can do it for you. You can even install a Jensen transformer on the input.
EDIT--looked at a pic of the inside--Burning Skies is right---no room
back to the Monique---

Yeah. Not gonna happen in the Kern. Even if you could fit the ICE module in a single space format, the turret board in the Kern is the bulk of the interior. You would have to re-house the Kern and do some furniture moving inside the box to even consider a powered unit, and then it wouldn't be one space I'm guessing.

 

[nomatic]

I haven't heard it yet...but then I'm playing my Monique with a 3000w power amp into 2 fEARful 15's.

You sure are loaded for bear....
I still think you could blow them up...
I have rum big commercial power amps before but this is different.

 

[BurningSkies]

Oh, I could definitely blow up a bunch of stuff with my amp. With great power comes great responsibility. But what it really does for me is mostly take the power stage 'out of the equation' when it comes to headroom and any limiting factors there. 1200w actually would put me in at least a general comfort zone, since really the 3015LF loaded fEARfuls are pretty happy with wattages in the 500-800 range per cab. Have I fed mine more? Yes, but I'm always very careful and back off at any sound of breakup. I also use a HPF to take care of any seriously hazardous low transients.

 

[Jule Potter]

Jule, can you make the clipping indicator a HUGE bright flashy light, so that if it goes off people know to run for the hills.

Another shot of a 'green light' Monique in the wild...outdoor hippy-fest. 90 degree late afternoon...running my power amp bridged for 2Kw+ DI plus mic.

Link Removed

That truly is a beautiful Bass.

I think I'm going to forge past the flashing light for one of those swirling ones you see the police slapping onto their roof when they start the car chase. Blue of course. And maybe a little siren. And maybe one of those vibrating things they stick in phones so we won't have to look.

Maybe.

Truth is there are few of us who will put a "Big Muff" pedal at full blast directly in front of Monique, (why Muff Monique?) but one does want to be prepared.

 

[Jule Potter]

Yeah. Not gonna happen in the Kern. Even if you could fit the ICE module in a single space format, the turret board in the Kern is the bulk of the interior. You would have to re-house the Kern and do some furniture moving inside the box to even consider a powered unit, and then it wouldn't be one space I'm guessing.

Exactly.

You would end up with a 2U enclosure. But it could be done.

 

[Mike Arnopol]

I really can see a huge difference in power amps that you would mate with the Monique (or other pre's). What Burning Skies says about taking the power amp out of the equation makes a lot of sense to me. With my bigger speakers that can take a ton of watts---I was getting what I thought was fart out with amps based on the IcePower 250ASX2 module, (My puma 900, Minnie, GK800). When I switched to the IcePower 1000 it turned out that what I thought was speaker fart out was actually amp fart out. Things went a lot louder and with MUCH more authority with the 1000. Clearer highs, more visceral lows. Don't get me wrong--these little 800 watt mini's are awesome---but they do have limitations---and headroom is one of those limitations.

Which is why I think the Hypex 700 module works really well. From what Nomatic---and the people at Hypex have said----that 700 watt rating is VERY conservative.

And in my opinion---watts aren't just watts---it's all about the headroom and burst power.

 

[Groove Doctor]

Jule:

• to keep the streamlined look, could you mount a clip light INSIDE the cage of the Dovecage? Or on all units - could you have the power light flash?

• Also, input trim - maybe that could be kept as an optional extra at time of purchase? (only 1/5 ~ 1/10 buyers would need that).
• Or have an outboard unit (at end of pedal chain, or just before amp input) that can dial down/switch/buffer/voltage-limiter the input signal to within optimal range. I see a lot more versatility & protection options this way.

Sometimes an all in one ISN'T the right answer.

 

[BurningSkies]

Exactly.

You would end up with a 2U enclosure. But it could be done.

Just to 'nail this coffin' I re-uploaded my Kern pics:

Monique by comparison:

Way more room to work with.

 

[Jule Potter]

I really can see a huge difference in power amps that you would mate with the Monique (or other pre's). What Burning Skies says about taking the power amp out of the equation makes a lot of sense to me. With my bigger speakers that can take a ton of watts---I was getting what I thought was fart out with amps based on the IcePower 250ASX2 module, (My puma 900, Minnie, GK800). When I switched to the IcePower 1000 it turned out that what I thought was speaker fart out was actually amp fart out. Things went a lot louder and with MUCH more authority with the 1000. Clearer highs, more visceral lows. Don't get me wrong--these little 800 watt mini's are awesome---but they do have limitations---and headroom is one of those limitations.

Which is why I think the Hypex 700 module works really well. From what Nomatic---and the people at Hypex have said----that 700 watt rating is VERY conservative.

And in my opinion---watts aren't just watts---it's all about the headroom and burst power.

Yes.

This "burst power" or residual power, is more important to bass players than it is in other music reproduction. This is part of why we use the 1200 watt power supply for the 700 watt amplifier. It is pretty quickly noticed when you hit the low (5 string) B and it has the same power out of the speaker as the other strings with no additional "touch." That simple bit of music requires a lot of residual power.

 

[monsterthompson]

Yes.

This "burst power" or residual power, is more important to bass players than it is in other music reproduction. This is part of why we use the 1200 watt power supply for the 700 watt amplifier. It is pretty quickly noticed when you hit the low (5 string) B and it has the same power out of the speaker as the other strings with no additional "touch." That simple bit of music requires a lot of residual power.

What does that mean for speaker cabs? Are you suggesting 700w cabs or 1200w cabs? I would imagine (if I'm not oversimplifying) that a 1200w burst would kill a lower rated cab.


"Comparison is the thief of joy."
- Theodore Roosevelt

 

[BurningSkies]

Since most cabs are rated for Thermal limits, it's hard to know, isn't it...given you're talking about excursion limits. The reality is that 'burst' transients don't happen all that often and aren't necessarily going to overheat your voice coils because the speakers aren't being pumped that hard throughout their use.

 

[monsterthompson]

Guess you gotta listen for fart out, and HPF away.


"Comparison is the thief of joy."
- Theodore Roosevelt

 

[BurningSkies]

Guess you gotta listen for fart out, and HPF away.


"Comparison is the thief of joy."
- Theodore Roosevelt

Exactly. The deep deep lows are where the excursion and power can be most damaging, so HP filtering can be a good option when dealing with very high wattages. Although enough energy in other areas can damage speakers too. And of course, listening to your drivers.

I want to clarify that when I say 'burst transients don't happen that often' I'm not saying that they don't happen with a frequency, just that they're 'periodic' rather than sustained.

 

[nomatic]

Monique 700 Killin it in the Studio Today.........

Line out into an inward connection Brute opto compressor then right to Disc.
Fat as hell and punchy.

 

[Baird6869]

I did an outdoor corporate gig this evening and Monique sounded amazing.

Weird setup as we arrived to a stage too small even for the drummer. The event planners ran out to Home Depot and bought a bunch of 4x8' floorboards to make a quick stage. So my amp was on a Gramma pad on a 3/4" floorboard on grass.

Cabs were Berg AE210's as always and I played my Fodera for most of the night and my Rob Allen for a half set or so.

Not sure why the weird stage setup worked so well, but it did!

 

[Jule Potter]

Exactly. The deep deep lows are where the excursion and power can be most damaging, so HP filtering can be a good option when dealing with very high wattages. Although enough energy in other areas can damage speakers too. And of course, listening to your drivers.

I want to clarify that when I say 'burst transients don't happen that often' I'm not saying that they don't happen with a frequency, just that they're 'periodic' rather than sustained.

Speakers are great "averaging" devices. They take these instantaneous peaks and valleys of different frequencies we send them and give us some average of it all. Instantaneous power input means little to a speaker. No. I do not expect anyone to need a 1200 watt speaker with this amp, but this is always going to be dependent upon the quality of the speaker.

 

[Jule Potter]

Monique 700 Killin it in the Studio Today.........

Line out into an inward connection Brute opto compressor then right to Disc.
Fat as hell and punchy.View attachment 453665

Thank you. Great picture too.

Yes. It felt important to make sure that no Monique feature got left off when the new amplifier was added. You could even simultaneously run both the 700 watt amplifier and an external amplifier (SVT Return loop?) from the Line Out at the same time.

 

[Jule Potter]

I did an outdoor corporate gig this evening and Monique sounded amazing.

Weird setup as we arrived to a stage too small even for the drummer. The event planners ran out to Home Depot and bought a bunch of 4x8' floorboards to make a quick stage. So my amp was on a Gramma pad on a 3/4" floorboard on grass.

Cabs were Berg AE210's as always and I played my Fodera for most of the night and my Rob Allen for a half set or so.

Not sure why the weird stage setup worked so well, but it did!

Just proves again that the objective hasn't changed. It is still to play the gig, bring fun to the audience, and have fun ourselves. Thank you for the pic.

 

[MarkA]

Not sure why the weird stage setup worked so well, but it did!

I know why. Duct tape.