Just how important is my cab at this point?

[TheArchitect]

IME and IMO, an IEM cannot replace a real cab. Yes, the house system provides a huge sound but not as clear and present as an real cab.
It's more about definition and presence. But also tactile experience.

I'm not sure your cab can possibly be more clear and present than two speakers literally in your ears..

 

[KevInDaBassment]

...You won't get the blaring wall of sound coming at you, but once you have your in ears dialed in, you will find that you hear what you are playing much more clearly...

^
That was my experience with IEMs as well

Honestly, it was harder for me to go back to amps+cabs after doing IEMs a few months. Harder to discern what I was playing, timing, and definitely harder on my hearing after practice. The "vibe" of a big rig is pretty cool, but the honeymoon phase with that can wear off pretty quick.

Plus, using IEM at rigs doesn't necessarily mean giving up the cathartic sensation of "rumble" at a gig, as MicGuy elaborated on in his post.

 

[Artman]

^
That was my experience with IEMs as well

Honestly, it was harder for me to go back to amps+cabs after doing IEMs a few months. Harder to discern what I was playing, timing, and definitely harder on my hearing after practice. The "vibe" of a big rig is pretty cool, but the honeymoon phase with that can wear off pretty quick.

Plus, using IEM at rigs doesn't necessarily mean giving up the cathartic sensation of "rumble" at a gig, as MicGuy elaborated on in his post.

I agree. I think a lot of folks tie their identity to whatever brand/size of amp rig, and hear more with their eyes than their ears.
Many of the big name artists you see standing in front of big amps have the volume turned all the way down on them.
Their mix is all DI and IEM, and they are being paid to have those amps on the stage with a little red light visible on the amp head.
Or they're afraid people will think "they're weak" because they aren't standing in front of a wall of speakers.

 

[baxter_x]

I'm not sure your cab can possibly be more clear and present than two speakers literally in your ears..

I would say I need both. But even without IEM, I can totally very clearly hear myself. As I mentioned earlier, I use them mainly for everything else than the bass.
Even when I'm there was wedges onstage, I was asking everything but the bass in it.

 

[MDBass]

Gonna try and make this as concise as possible.
Started playing at a professional level (1,000-10,000 cap rooms, major festivals etc.) in 2022.
I have a headline tour coming up in about 3 weeks ( these rooms will range from (1k-3,000 cap)so I got an Aguilar TH500 (Aguilar has been the brand that never lets me down when I've backlined rigs in the past) but I'm trying to figure out the cab situation as soon as possible.
I did a support tour with an Amp Rocket RB-210 and even played Radio City Music Hall with it but I just feel like I need to upgrade my personally owned rig at this point.

We will be on ears and our FOH engineer says the majority of my tone in the FOH mix comes from my DI signal. I have my pedal board dialed in at this point, it ends with an Origin Effects BassRig64 which acts as my DI.

Just how important is my cab at this point? Part of me thinks I should just spend the bread on the Aggy SL210 or bigger but the cost is a bit much right now.

Thanks in advance, glad to finally not just be a lurker anymore!

The amount of people that didn’t actually read your post before chiming in is pretty funny

The cab is a massive part of the sound signature if you’re mic’ing a live bass amp.

That said, the larger the room is the less a live bass amp onstage will effect what the audience is hearing out front or even what the bassist is hearing onstage.

In your current situation, according to your own FOH engineer, your cab is essentially irrelevant.

The last tour I was playing 10,000-20,000 cap rooms on IEM’s, I didn’t have a live amp onstage at all and sounded phenomenal out front every night.

In rooms that size, even a 810 onstage would’ve added very little to what I was feeling and nothing to what I was hearing.

A 210 cab onstage, on an IEM gig, will be inaudible in practice to both the band and the audience in 1,000-10,000 cap theater and arena venues.

I’d suggest saving your money

 

[baxter_x]

That said, the larger the room is the less a live bass amp onstage will effect what the audience is hearing out front or even what the bassist is hearing onstage.

There is strong myth about this particular point. No one but the player will hear the tone if the rig unless you play in front of 20 people. My rig is for me, I don't expect the audience to heear it.

 

[blizzard]

Personally, I wouldn't bother with a cab. If it was me, I would seriously consider getting a Helix and forego the amp. If you run dirt, I would consider a DI with cab Sim / IR and also sending a dry signal to FOH.

As an aside I got to go back stage at a Foo Fighters show, all 3 guitars and Nate are running IEMs + amps cranked on stage. FOH sound was superb, like huge but you could clearly hear every instrument.

 

[MDBass]

There is strong myth about this particular point. No one but the player will hear the tone if the rig unless you play in front of 20 people. My rig is for me, I don't expect the audience to heear it.

You’re responding to something I didn’t actually say, so I’d suggest re-reading what I wrote.

I love my live rig.

It sounds phenomenal.

For theater gigs on wedges I won’t use anything else unless it’s absolutely mandatory for some logistical reason.

Using it on stage in an arena while running IEM’s adds nothing to the experience.

 

[BaltBass5]

At least, to your ears.

Well in my ears that’s all that matters. The FOH guy we roll with makes me sound good at FOH.

 

[BaltBass5]

This a great point and an important point-of-view. One cool thing about the BassRig pre/pedal is that it has additional tone shaping that is sent only to the amp out, not the DI out. So you could set up the DI sound as your FoH prefers it, AND alter the signal to your on-stage cab to your own preference without throwing off the mix. In that way, to me, it's the aguilar head that is redundant, if you are sending FoH the signal from the BassRig. but not a 'problem' at all to use it or use it as power-only.

I think the "it depends on..." factors have been well addressed. My strategy in your position would probably be to run the amp out from the Origin BassRig to a single powered 112 of your preference, or passive 12 with a GSS baby sumo perched on top (love that single, huge volume knob). Or if you personally like 210's better than 12's, that would be great too. I like the in-ear precision plus a small amount of stage vibe/pants flap/backup sound, but I am among those who feel a single "medium" cab (112, 210, 115) is adequate and a smart compromise in this scenario, if you're not ready to go fully cab-less.

However…important note here is that if you use the XLR out on the BassRig you cannot bypass the speaker sim.

 

[baxter_x]

You’re responding to something I didn’t actually say, so I’d suggest re-reading what I wrote.

I know you didn't say it! I actually agree with you.

 

[JazznFunk]

IME and IMO, an IEM cannot replace a real cab. Yes, the house system provides a huge sound but not as clear and present as an real cab.
It's more about definition and presence. But also tactile experience.

On a big stage, a cabinet will get lost soon enough. Often, the house/subs will overpower or compete with your cab and render it moot in terms of punch/presence, and it will not be distinct enough to be truly useful below a certain volume level. If you end up turning it up loud enough to truly be felt/heard, then the FOH will ask you to turn it down. In my experience playing larger stages, it became a point of diminishing returns to use a bigger rig when all I was told/asked to do was turn it down. No sense schlepping gear that is irrelevant, or not allowed to be loud enough to be useful in the end. Go IEM, go direct, make life easier for everyone. All that being said, I don't believe this to be true for smaller stages where your rig is fully expected to do the heavy lifting in terms of the low end. When I went direct/amp-less, I used a Tone Hammer preamp pedal, in conjunction with a couple of other things I'd use sparingly (VT Bass, and maybe a chorus or something). Tone Hammer is a great choice for direct only work.

 

[baxter_x]

On a big stage, a cabinet will get lost soon enough.

Not my experience at all.

then the FOH will ask you to turn it down

I don't see how a rig can compete with a FOH. Or it's a mid venue. Not a big festival venue.

 

[bherman]

Lots of advice and opinions here, reinforces for me that everyone's needs/wants/experiences are different. What it would come down to me are two things: 1) how comfortable am I on a largish stage with IEM only? Does it work for me in terms of the sound reinforcement that I need? and 2) can I count on consistent FOH and onstage sound reinforcement at every giig (ie, consistent sound tech and equipment), or is it possibly going to vary by location? If the former, I'd first talk to the production folks about their preferences if any, and if ok, I'd buy myself a top-level in-ear system custom fitted to me. IF the former, I'd have an onstage rig that I liked, so that at the very least I'd have the assurance of a decent sounding rig right behind me.
And nowadays there are plenty of cabs that are smaller and lighter than an Aggie 410 that will do the job. Not sure if you're going to be the guy doing load in or if there's a crew - if its you, weight and size matters. If its a crew, better budget for a good roadcase

 

[baxter_x]

Very nice input.
I also feel people are opposing IEM versus a real rig.
For me it's complementary. Both can work together.
It's not necessarily one or the other.

 

[BlueTalon]

As cool as they sound, oh heavens no.
I myself don't have the back or time to move that heavy thing around.

Most big gigs with provided sound have subs. They usually provide all the low end one needs. A small speaker cabinet or a nice modern monitor wedge is enough to augment an IEM monitor situation, a little heft in the background.

I think my knee buckled when I read "Built tough from 13-ply baltic birch."

 

[-Stingray]

Not in the same position as you OP, as the largest venues I play at are 1000'ish. That said, You should be fine using IEM without a cab, BUT only as long as you are using quality multi-driver IEM's. With a good set of IEM's you won't be missing anything.

 

[MrLenny1]

Used 4x10 cab raised. I see this on many
stages with high profile bands.

 

[baxter_x]

Used 4x10 cab raised. I see this on many
stages with high profile bands.

I did that a several tiimes and hated it. You lose all the bottem end of the tone. 410 or any other cab.

 

[JazznFunk]

Not my experience at all.


I don't see how a rig can compete with a FOH. Or it's a mid venue. Not a big festival venue.

Been my experience many times. You don't realize how far out front your cab projects, especially when you turn it up loud enough so you can hear it comfortably. What sounds 'just right' to you can be way too loud or washy/indistinct out front depending on room acoustics.

A rig can't compete with FOH overall - but it can make the low end harder to mix out front if you have your rig way louder than everything else to be heard on stage. FOH often does overpower a rig when it's set right for FOH level balance.... which often results in a less than useful volume level ON stage.