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Just how many watts does a jazz bassist need?

Dm7b5

Dm7b5

Nov 20, 2022
81
132
#1
Hi folks....

I'm ready to buy some Phil Jones gear (maybe) to complement the sweet 5 string fretless I just bought and soon another upright bass.

I have found online sellers where I am (UK) that have both the BP-800 and the D400..
Also deciding between the Compact 4 or the Cab 47.

My main use will be home practice, my studio recording and maybe some jazz trios and quartets.. is BP800 overkill you think? Or would the D400 be more than adequate for my needs described above?

Please forgive all the questions but because there is nowhere to go and try these items near me I have to rely on other people's opinions and descriptions.

Everyone I speak to says to get the BP800 for the extra clean headroom, but they are mostly loud rock and funk players and not really jazz guys.

I played guitar in jazz trios, quartets, quintets, louds 6 piece African groups, rock bands, and right up to 14 piece big bands with large horn sections and even dance and big loud funk orchestras for 10 years with nothing but a Peavey Bandit guitar amp that was only 112 watts and it was more power than I ever needed. I can not ever really imagine suddenly needing 800 watts for anything just because I now want to play jazz bass.. buy hey I'm open to suggestions.

Would appreciate a few wise gear/wattage opinions before I splash out.

Thank you.
 
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#3
You question really is, "why does it take so much more power to amplify lower frequencies." This link is not great, but it gives a general idea. The psychoacoustic angle, our ears are more sensitive to the frequency range found in the human voice, the same range as guitar. Add the physical side, low frequency a la longer wave length require more energy to produce and big, heavier hardware to produce it with.

Why Are Bass Amps So High Wattage Compared to Guitar Amps? - inSync
 
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#4
Dm7b5 said:
Hi folks....

I'm ready to buy some Phil Jones gear to complement the sweet 5 string fretless I just bought and soon another upright bass.

I have found online sellers where I am (UK) that have both the BP-800 and the D400..
Also deciding between the Compact 4 or the Cab 47.

My main use will be home practice, my studio recording and maybe some jazz trios and quartets.. is BP800 overkill you think? Or would the D400 be more than adequate for my needs described above?

Please forgive all the questions but because there is nowhere to go and try these items near me I have to rely on other people's opinions and descriptions.

Everyone I speak to says to get the BP800 for the extra clean headroom, but they are mostly loud rock and funk players and not really jazz guys.

I played guitar in jazz trios, quartets, quintets, louds 6 piece African groups, rock bands, and right up to 14 piece big bands with large horn sections and even dance and big loud funk orchestras for 10 years with nothing but a Peavey Bandit guitar amp that was only 112 watts and it was more power than I ever needed. I can not ever really imagine suddenly needing 800 watts for anything just because I now want to play jazz bass.. buy hey I'm open to suggestions.

Would appreciate a few wise gear/wattage opinions before I splash out.

Thank you.
Click to expand...
Well, I don't know who this mysterious "They" is telling you that you need 800w for jazz. As you should have noticed by now, jazz combos tend to play at a lower volume than rock bands. Loud ensembles should be using PA systems anyway. I've also seen jazz bassists use a variety of amps.

I'm not sure why you need a new amp in the first place. What are you currently using? What isn't it able to do?
 
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#5
This is the rare case where I might recommend a combo amp (I generally prefer separate head/cabinet setups). Check out the Phil Jones BG400 Suitcase. It is a Compact 4 with a two channel amp built in. Since you mention electric and double bass, dedicating one channel to each is likely a nice feature. It also lands between the two heads you mentioned in terms of output. If you find you need more volume later, add a Compact 4.

Back to your original question, I expect either head could do it. I have a Genzler Magellan 350 pushing three PJB Compact 2 cabinets and am confident it could handle a jazz trio. It has been something like 15 years, but I have played in one. I was using an SWR Workingman’s 12 at the time.
 
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#6
ClusterFlux said:
Well, I don't know who this mysterious "They" is telling you that you need 800w for jazz. As you should have noticed by now, jazz combos tend to play at a lower volume than rock bands. Loud ensembles should be using PA systems anyway. I've also seen jazz bassists use a variety of amps.

I'm not sure why you need a new amp in the first place. What are you currently using? What isn't it able to do?
Click to expand...

I did mention upright is brand new and so is the fretless 5 string bass. I need a new amp because I have no bass amp at all yet.. just guitar amps. (Although I have to say the fretless bass does sound rather gorgeous through my Roland Jazz Chorus)
 
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#7
ahbass2500 said:
This is the rare case where I might recommend a combo amp (I generally prefer separate head/cabinet setups). Check out the Phil Jones BG400 Suitcase. It is a Compact 4 with a two channel amp built in. Since you mention electric and double bass, dedicating one channel to each is likely a nice feature. It also lands between the two heads you mentioned in terms of output. If you find you need more volume later, add a Compact 4.

Back to your original question, I expect either head could do it. I have a Genzler Magellan 350 pushing three PJB Compact 2 cabinets and am confident it could handle a jazz trio. It has been something like 15 years, but I have played in one. I was using an SWR Workingman’s 12 at the time.
Click to expand...

Since discovering the joys of stereo amps I like the idea of a head and separate cabs, or at least 2 cabs so I can spread my sound wide rather then it coming from a single source right next to me. I love being immersed in and bathing in sound. Combos don't allow me to do this.
 
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#8
Dm7b5 said:
Since discovering the joys of stereo amps I like the idea of a head and separate cabs, or at least 2 cabs so I can spread my sound wide rather then it coming from a single source right next to me. I love being immersed in and bathing in sound. Combos don't allow me to do this.
Click to expand...

Sure it does. That combo has a speaker output for a second cabinet (powered from the combos power amp). It also has preamp outs for adding powered cabinets or going into another amp.
 
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#9
Trust your experience. If 112 watts worked in the past, then 800 isn't necessary. I'd go for the D400 or the Suitcase.

The sense I get from pros these days is that the era of super loud amps is ending anyways, even for rock. Better for our ears as musicians and better for a live mix, since loud amps aren't competing with the PA.
 
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#11
[
Dm7b5 said:
Hi folks....

I'm ready to buy some Phil Jones gear to complement the sweet 5 string fretless I just bought and soon another upright bass.

I have found online sellers where I am (UK) that have both the BP-800 and the D400..
Also deciding between the Compact 4 or the Cab 47.

My main use will be home practice, my studio recording and maybe some jazz trios and quartets.. is BP800 overkill you think? Or would the D400 be more than adequate for my needs described above?

Please forgive all the questions but because there is nowhere to go and try these items near me I have to rely on other people's opinions and descriptions.

Everyone I speak to says to get the BP800 for the extra clean headroom, but they are mostly loud rock and funk players and not really jazz guys.

I played guitar in jazz trios, quartets, quintets, louds 6 piece African groups, rock bands, and right up to 14 piece big bands with large horn sections and even dance and big loud funk orchestras for 10 years with nothing but a Peavey Bandit guitar amp that was only 112 watts and it was more power than I ever needed. I can not ever really imagine suddenly needing 800 watts for anything just because I now want to play jazz bass.. buy hey I'm open to suggestions.

Would appreciate a few wise gear/wattage opinions before I splash out.

Thank you.
Click to expand...

As mentioned, you shouldn’t be comparing guitar amp watts to bass amp watts, as low frequencies take much more power to generate. A 100watt guitar amp is LOUD, and a 100watt bass amp won’t even keep up with a drummer. If I was going to a gig where I knew the guitarist had a 100watt guitar amp, I’d be bringing a 500watt bass amp just to match their volume.

I’ve played upright and electric bass in all kinds of jazz settings for decades, and if there’s any chance you’ll ever be playing with a big band you will want 500 watts to cleanly produce the low end. You can hang with some big bands with less watts, but not with all big bands or in all venues/settings, so I’d recommend 500 as a safe minimum. I personally found that a GK MB150 combo amp (150watts) was usually enough power for a quiet indoor jazz trio gig. But if we were outdoors or playing a really large room, I always wanted more volume than the 150 watt combo amp could provide.

I don’t know anything about the Phil Jones gear, but in general I’d recommend getting 500-800 watts if this will be your only amp. 400 watts is probably just fine. If you’ll only be in trios/quartets and NEVER play with a big band with drums and large horn section, then you could go lower than 500 but probably not any lower than 250-350 watts. Of course, this all depends on the particular amp/cab manufacturer and design, as they all perform differently regardless of their advertised wattage rating. Sorry I don’t have any Phil Jones experience, but I do have lots of jazz gigging experience with lots of different amps.

Regardless of music genre, I do agree with those saying lots of clean headroom is a good thing. I currently just use a 700 watt bass amp for everything I do, from home practice, to my quietest gigs, to my loudest gigs. I just use one cab for quieter uses and two cabs for louder needs.
 
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#15
Back in my gigging days as a bass player, I always had overkill for most any show. But I did front a heavy metal band in the late 80's and the bass player had a Crate combo amp. 150 watts and a single 15 inch speaker. We played some big shows but always had PA support. The amp was really just a stage monitor. It struggled at every show even for that but ended up working out fine. With Thor on drums it really surprised me. I have mentally made that my bare minimum of what will work.
 
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#16
Depends on who you play with and where you play. If you’re aiming for DB volume you obviously don’t need a very powerful amp. Likewise if you will play through PA you may not need much.

I’ll +1 that my experience with Phil Jones has been great. The bang for portability can’t be beat. And the tones are quite transparent. For louder situations I use a different rig but in smaller or less “loud” spaces my PJB has never let me down.
 
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