Just opened up my 210MBE...

[ErnieD]

I wonder if additional bracing and damping at the factory woulda put it outta the pricepoint they seem to be trying to achieve?

I was thinking of snaggin a 210MBE(?) or whatever the single 210 ext. cab model's number is. I could handle adding the damping material but prolly not the bracing.

 

[will33]

So.....after 11 pages, what have we learned here?

A. Your cabinet should be lined.

B. Your cabinet should be lined.

C. Your cabinet should be lined.


To summarize...your cabinet should be lined.



The only thing I could add would be to pick up a $1 can of flat black spray paint and put a little misting of it just on the little area of foam that's visible through the ports. Depending on the viewing angle and the lighting, this will make it so there isn't some bright white or yellow blotch shining back at people through the ports in your otherwise nice looking rig. If it's constructed with a shelf port or has grill cloth instead of metal on the front, this may not even be needed.

So how much paint can you put there before it closes the cells and creates a reflection in that spot? I don't know but from experience, just enough to darken it keeps it sounding good and looking good.

 

[will33]

I wonder if additional bracing and damping at the factory woulda put it outta the pricepoint they seem to be trying to achieve?

I was thinking of snaggin a 210MBE(?) or whatever the single 210 ext. cab model's number is. I could handle adding the damping material but prolly not the bracing.

More bracing is better but in this case, just putting a single stick running from inbetween the speaker cutouts to the middle of the back wall would be an improvement.

 

[ErnieD]

will33: "More bracing is better but in this case, just putting a single stick running from inbetween the speaker cutouts to the middle of the back wall would be an improvement.?

Then the bracing is more for internal sound deflection rather than attempting to strengthen the actual cab?

 

[will33]

will33: "More bracing is better but in this case, just putting a single stick running from inbetween the speaker cutouts to the middle of the back wall would be an improvement.?

Then the bracing is more for internal sound deflection rather than attempting to strengthen the actual cab?

The bracing is to make the box solid so it doesn't vibrate/resonate. The lining is for internal reflections. The 2 weakest spots in the box will be the middle of the largest panels, thus the stick from front to back. You should brace it more than that but if you're not that great with woodwork, etc., you could do that much with a handsaw and kill the worst of it.

 

[billfitzmaurice]

I don't know squat about what a cabinet should be built like

Perhaps you should consider the opinions of those who do.

So to me, it's a moot point as to whether it's right or wrong...

If you're happy with the cab as it is, all well and good. But ignoring the testimonials from those who have lined the cab and all found that it works better when lined is best summed up here:

Link Removed

More bracing is better but in this case, just putting a single stick running from inbetween the speaker cutouts to the middle of the back wall would be an improvement.

+100. It would be a major improvement, the equivalent of quadrupling the thickness of the baffle and back in resistance to vibration. And vibration isn't bad just because of the rattling noise (which owners are starting to report). Energy that vibrates panels is energy that isn't heard as sound. A well braced cab goes lower and louder than an otherwise identical cab that's poorly braced or unbraced.

 

[GaryLC]

Perhaps you should consider the opinions of those who do.If you're happy with the cab as it is, all well and good. But ignoring the testimonials from those who have lined the cab and all found that it works better when lined is best summed up here:

Link Removed

+100. It would be a major improvement, the equivalent of quadrupling the thickness of the baffle and back in resistance to vibration. And vibration isn't bad just because of the rattling noise (which owners are starting to report). Energy that vibrates panels is energy that isn't heard as sound. A well braced cab goes lower and louder than an otherwise identical cab that's poorly braced or unbraced.

Bill, I wasn't trying to be a smart-ass at all, actually just admitting my ignorance! And I love reading the opinions of those who are knowledgable, I learn something all the time. I guess what I was trying to get across is that I've had a lot of great equipment, still have an Epifani UL310, and a Schroeder 115, have had dozens of other combos & separates over the years. I just love the sound of the MB212 combo that I have, it filled some niche that I wasn't getting with other cabinets & heads.
I've been the first one to admit that I don't believe it's "structurally solid", but I love the sound. I'm not ignoring the testimonials of those who have their actual facts straight, I'm just basically lazy, and am happy with it the way it is. I certainly wasn't trying to offend anyone!

 

[rpsands]

If you're happy and you know it, don't screw with anything. Nothing wrong with that.

Lots of people are not happy with these combos because they have all the tools to be comparable to top notch boutique level combos (in my opinion) but lack a couple sticks and a roll of quilt batting. And to some ears sound boomy and muddy as a result.

Is two sticks and a 5 dollar roll of cotton really the difference between a thousand dollar combo and a 500 dollar combo? Pretty ridiculous.

 

[GaryLC]

If you're happy and you know it, don't screw with anything. Nothing wrong with that.

Lots of people are not happy with these combos because they have all the tools to be comparable to top notch boutique level combos (in my opinion) but lack a couple sticks and a roll of quilt batting. And to some ears sound boomy and muddy as a result.

Is two sticks and a 5 dollar roll of cotton really the difference between a thousand dollar combo and a 500 dollar combo? Pretty ridiculous.

This whole thread has intrigued me, but I am the most unhandy guy you could ever meet. I'm starting to think like some of the other posters, it'll open up my mind (and hopefully my ears); when the warranty is up, maybe I'll open her up, and do the minimal front-to-back bracing, and add some batting. Sounds like I might be pleasantly surprised!

 

[warx]

Here's a couple of pics.

Soundwise there is a difference. I am not going to say it has cleared up what I was trying to fix TBH. It is better. My room is not a great test room so that does not help. I still wonder if a higher density batting would not be better in there. The inside walls have the combo amp cutout in there but I did cover every wall and braced from front to back and side to side. I did not brace from top to bottom - I was worried that when lifting it with the handle on top it would eventually unglue the brace unless it was screwed in place. The back panel brace is in the middle of the whole cab there there was already a piece holding the amp there. The knock test sounds much better (except top and bottom). But these cabinets are not that too bad to start with really - I guess they are small.

Here's a quick summary;
1) removed drivers
2) made two braces, glued in with tight shims
3) cut 2" thick foam topper to fit all sides
4) spray glued in with Loctite 100 heatproof glue
5) sprayed the green foam black near the port.
6) re-assembled

My next mod is put an -6db on the horn - or get a better horn.

I thought about checking the polarity/phase of the extension output but that is on the amp side anyways - so I'll check if/when I do the -6db horn pad.

Overall I just don't think this is the cab for me. I liked my old 4x10 and my new one is just spot on what I want. So whatever I do here is not going to get me there in this sort of lightweight portability. Probably going to sell the 210, the Peavey 4x10 and even the 3500 head and look at a small new head (digital) and leave the valve tone in the Markbass (not convinced about that part yet!).

 

[zephyr_words]

I just got this cab in today. My Peavy Basic 112 sounds way better than it. Any low notes sound like very muddy farts.

It could just be that it's too powerful for the room I'm in but my 4x10s sound much cleaner and the same volume as does the 1x12. I'll edit this post if it sounds better in my rehearsal space.

Also, is it supposed to have an 6inchx6inch hole in the bottom left corner with exposed glue?

edit:

So it suddenly stopped sounding like crap. I don't know what happened. /weird. Feel much better now!

 

[splitcoilsenior]

It's funny that you say there's no bracing, because I watched a Gk tour video (with Norm Stockton), and the head guy for GK talked about how proud he was of how well they brace their cabinets and how other high end companies cabinets ring like a drum because of poor bracing.......hmmmm.

 

[will33]

Here's a couple of pics.

Soundwise there is a difference. I am not going to say it has cleared up what I was trying to fix TBH. It is better. My room is not a great test room so that does not help. I still wonder if a higher density batting would not be better in there. The inside walls have the combo amp cutout in there but I did cover every wall and braced from front to back and side to side. I did not brace from top to bottom - I was worried that when lifting it with the handle on top it would eventually unglue the brace unless it was screwed in place. The back panel brace is in the middle of the whole cab there there was already a piece holding the amp there. The knock test sounds much better (except top and bottom). But these cabinets are not that too bad to start with really - I guess they are small.

Here's a quick summary;
1) removed drivers
2) made two braces, glued in with tight shims
3) cut 2" thick foam topper to fit all sides
4) spray glued in with Loctite 100 heatproof glue
5) sprayed the green foam black near the port.
6) re-assembled

My next mod is put an -6db on the horn - or get a better horn.

I thought about checking the polarity/phase of the extension output but that is on the amp side anyways - so I'll check if/when I do the -6db horn pad.

Overall I just don't think this is the cab for me. I liked my old 4x10 and my new one is just spot on what I want. So whatever I do here is not going to get me there in this sort of lightweight portability. Probably going to sell the 210, the Peavey 4x10 and even the 3500 head and look at a small new head (digital) and leave the valve tone in the Markbass (not convinced about that part yet!).

Your pic on the right is a good example of about all it'd take to make these things decent little cabs. And to the earlier posters, no matter how "un-handy" you are, if you can manage to glue in a front to back stick, you should do a side to side one as well. A top to bottom one wouldn't hurt either. There shouldn't be any flex in the panel when picking it up with the handle, if there is, the brace will fix that. No need to worry about it pulling loose assuming you use most any type of "wood glue" and not kindergarten paste.

To the earlier poster, that square hole is the port, it's supposed to be there. Again, this is cheap, easy stuff that's highly effective, they should've cheaped out somewhere else along the way.

 

[tallboybass]

I just love the sound of the MB212 combo that I have, it filled some niche that I wasn't getting with other cabinets & heads.

Thanks Gary, I agree with your whole post but this part summarizes why I'm not digging into mine. "For me" it couldn't sound any better. We recorded last weekend and I was just dumbstruck with how great it sounded on tape as well as live.

 

[billfitzmaurice]

I just love the sound of the MB212 combo that I have, it filled some niche that I wasn't getting with other cabinets & heads.
I've been the first one to admit that I don't believe it's "structurally solid", but I love the sound. I'm not ignoring the testimonials of those who have their actual facts straight, I'm just basically lazy, and am happy with it the way it is. I certainly wasn't trying to offend anyone!

There's nothing wrong with liking your cab the way it is. I was questioning the inference, though perhaps not an intentional one your part, that it couldn't be made better. IME the list of cabs that are made as well as it's possible to make them is a very short one, no matter what the price point. When the cost, time and skills required to make potentially significant improvements is so slight, why not?

 

[tallboybass]

Bill, with much respect...I've owned many cabs that were made as well as anything out there...Epifani, Bergantino, Genz, Schroeder...and much prefer the sound I get out of the MB212..."for my sound". Maybe I 'like' the peaks and valleys created by 'wrong' cabs?

 

[billfitzmaurice]

Bill, with much respect...I've owned many cabs that were made as well as anything out there...Epifani, Bergantino, Genz, Schroeder...and much prefer the sound I get out of the MB212..."for my sound". Maybe I 'like' the peaks and valleys created by 'wrong' cabs?

You miss the point. You're inference is that you can't make the MB212 any better than it is, personal tone preference notwithstanding. Maybe you can, maybe not, but only in the trying can you know.

 

[tallboybass]

Agreed, it 'might' make it better. I'm just saying my preferences aren't necessarily for 'higher quality sound'. If one likes the sound of old dead strings, telling them that new strings would make it sound better would fall on deaf ears.

(not to mention killing the warranty and the very real possibility of me screwing something up)

(i'll bet when the warranty is up i give it a go anyway)

 

[MIJ-VI]

A consensus appears to be emerging here:

The need for bracing and lining in the MB212 is not as obvious or urgent as it is in the MB210.

This would seem to make the marginally more expensive & heavier (and louder) MB212 the better combo to live with for the duration of G-K's warranty...

 

[will33]

If you're happy and you know it,

Clap your hands, (clap, clap).



Sorry man, had to.