just paid $3.85 a gallon

[Bad Brains]

I think you underestimate the level of sprawl in many American cities. I may be underestimating the amount of driving the rest of the world has to do, but I do know that driving is my only option much of the time. I could remove maybe three or four round trips a week if I biked.

That's the main problem with the way our society is built. Everything is built up around the premise of cheap gas. It's time we get to reality here. Gas prices aren't going down, they are only going to go up. We need to stop assuming it's going to be cheap and change our ways, and soon.

 

[lemur821]

That's the main problem with the way our society is built. Everything is built up around the premise of cheap gas. It's time we get to reality here. Gas prices aren't going down, they are only going to go up. We need to stop assuming it's going to be cheap and change our ways, and soon.

Yeah. I'm not a big fan of having to drive everywhere anyway. Not that I don't like driving, but enough is enough.

 

[Keeaumoku]

Go to places like Japan, South Korea, or even most parts of Europe for that matter. Those countries have mass transportation down to an artform... but they've always paid a much higher price for gasoline than we Americans. Get used to it boys and girls... five bucks a gallon will be here before you know it!

I'm glad I didn't get that Dodge Magnum with the Hemi V-8... for once... procrastination has paid-off...

 

[Rusty Chainsaw]

I don't want to be too nosy, but how are you European folks able to afford gas that is $6 and more a gallon? What kind of hourly wages do you make??? For someone in the USA who makes $20 an hour, $3 a gallon here in the USA is spendy.

-Mike

We drive smaller cars and have grown to love diesel!

Seriously, when I lived in the US, I was amazed when people used to tell me that they thought 30mpg was good gas mileage. There are smaller cars over here in Europe that pull 50-60mpg, that's running on regular low-sulphur diesel, no fancy hybrid technology at work there.

America still has kinda outdated views on diesel... modern diesel engines are nothing like the noisy, dirty engines of old. They're quiet, powerful and extremely economical, and with the low-sulphur diesel (that the US is finally getting this summer) combined with particulate filters, less polluting than gasoline.

I'm all for greater use of biodiesel and E85 though, but not if our respective governments tax them to the same levels they tax petrol and diesel... no incentive for customers to switch to the more environmentally-friendly option. But high tax on fuel is a way of life here in the UK... the government is trying to tax us off the roads and into the trains and buses. That's fine if you're living in a city like London or Manchester where there's good public transport (you do NOT need a car in London), but not for those who live in more rural areas... the buses are almost non-existent and trains are infrequent and often cancelled or late.

 

[Petebass]

My next car:-

Invalid Link Removed

4.4L / 100km fuel economy equates to about roughly 60 miles per gallon. Oh and the listed price is in Aussie Dollars so don't freak out when you see it

Aussie TV has just started advertising a similar car that produced only H2O from the exhaust. I can't remember what it is, but I'll pay more attention to the ad next time.

 

[mike_v_s]

Yet another bummer courtesy of me.





You'll pollute less, but the car will cost you far more in the end than putting regular gas into a regular car.

1. the batteries, and the cars themselves, are only made to last about 8 years, an then if you're to replace the battery it'll cost you another $5000 or so (US Dollars).

2. the hybrids initially cost about $8000++ than a comperable non-hybrid model and, if we're talking Hondas, will last you about half as long and have effectively zero resale value after only about 5 years since ... see point #1.

Link Removed

"Owners of 'environmentally friendly' hybrid cars like the Toyota Prius and Honda Insight may be hit with a bill for up to $7000 when their car's battery dies less than eight years after purchase. The battery unit, which has a lifespan of 8-10 years -- shorter in hotter climates like Australia -- cannot be reconditioned. It must be thrown out and replaced with a new one, at considerable cost to the owner. "

"Toyota's manager of alternative fuels and specialized vehicles, Vic Johnstone, concedes the batteries, like the car itself, are built to last less than a decade. "The life of the car and the battery are supposed to be the same... around 8 to 10 years," he said."

"...it's hard to see a single financial reason for consumers to buy petrol/electric hybrids."

Multiple auto magazines, while praising the vehicles, have concluded the same....

Mike

 

[Ericman197]

Hydrogen fuel is also a joke. It may not cause any significant pollution when combusted, but it does take a lot of energy to produce it. As of now we're just breaking down water into hydrogen and oxygen, and recombining them for a net loss of power. The only way I could see that being viable is if the power plants that produced the energy to break down water were wind, solar, hydroelectric, etc.

 

[Tnavis]

Or.....

we could just turn turkeys into crude oil.

Invalid Link Removed

 

[AuG]

Smash: What about Cold Fusion? Is "The Saint" just a stupid movie? Or is there credibility in it's plot?

By the way, Guinness is GREAT for you.

 

[SMASH]

Smash: What about Cold Fusion? Is "The Saint" just a stupid movie? Or is there credibility in it's plot?

You decide - [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

The article suggests there's something to it, but the actions of those who have supposedly "proven" it suggests otherwise IMO. Also note the date of it.

I doubt it exists and if it does I don't think we'll ever see it on a level to produce significant energy, and certainly not in time to change the course we're already on in re: Peak Oil, energy security, massive overconsumption, etc.

By the way, Guinness is GREAT for you.

Indeed.

 

[JansenW]

You'll pollute less..."

What kind of poliution will be created when these cars and thier sealed nickel metal hydride, (Ni-MH)2, batteries are tossed in 8-10 years?

if you're to replace the battery it'll cost you another $5000

I think owners expect the replacement costs to be lower in the next 8-10 years.

EDIT: Note: I just paid $.99 for a bottle (16.9 fl.oz) of water which works out to be about $7.50+ per gallon!

 

[NamelessOne]

at 2:00 this morning, an hour east of Calgary, there was one station advertising 9.5 cents/liter...

all the others were advertising 95 cents/liter...

on a semi-unrelated note, there were northern lights visible from the Trans-Canada at 12:30... awesome

 

[Rusty Chainsaw]

How much oil and coal, etc. does it take to make biodiesel and E85 ?



In the case of most, if not all, viable alternatives a gallon of "bio"fuel costs more pollution in its production and use than a gallon of regular fuel.

I'm not sure of regular diesel, but I'll bet it's true in that case too. I'd appreciate knowing if it's not.

Not a great deal, as it goes. Ethanol is distilled the same way whiskey might be, so heating is about the only expenditure of energy (right now probably fuelled by natural gas), and biodiesel is essentially vegetable oil with a few additives. I think the main idea is that these fuels are carbon neutral - basically, that the (minimal) CO2 emissions from burning the fuels are negated by the amount of CO2 used by the plants themselves for photosynthesis. Plus, certainly for the US, in the Midwest and many other places, there's loads of arable land that could be used to plant rapeseed, and help reduce dependence on foreign oil supplies.

LPG seems to be an attractive option for cheaper fuel right now too, especially since you can now have a gas compressor fitted in your garage, allowing you to use your house gas supply to fuel your car!

 

[ModulusFan]

/subscribe

 

[JimK]

EDIT: Note: I just paid $.99 for a bottle (16.9 fl.oz) of water which works out to be about $7.50+ per gallon!

SIGH
You bought ONE Bottle...you know the unit price goes down if you woulda bought a 6-pack(of water) or a gallon.
Too, you can always use tap water(w/ a filter).


On a tangent-
Suppose the Utility Companies decide to go nuts ala Exxon, et al.
We'll all be taking less showers, doing less laundy...flushing the commodes goes back to the daze of "If it's brown, flush it down; it's it's yellow, let it mellow".
Furthermore, the hypocrisy of "Supply & Demand"-
We were put on water rationing a few years back...everybody complied. When the rationing was lifted, I guess most were still being careful about their water usage...the damn Utilities Company, with Supply now greater than the Demand, RAISED prices because they were not meeting their profit expectations.

 

[JimK]

We drive smaller cars and have grown to love diesel!

Seriously, when I lived in the US, I was amazed when people used to tell me that they thought 30mpg was good gas mileage. There are smaller cars over here in Europe that pull 50-60mpg, that's running on regular low-sulphur diesel, no fancy hybrid technology at work there.

America still has kinda outdated views on diesel...

Diesel, at least here in VA, is still higher priced than even the Hi-Test gas(already up around $4 a gallon).

Small cars, huh? So how are you guys getting your bass + amps around town?U-Haul rentals? Stuffing all yer gear in the one poor shlub(the drummer?) who owns a...gasp...van or SUV?

 

[SMASH]

What kind of poliution will be created when these cars and thier sealed nickel metal hydride, (Ni-MH)2, batteries are tossed in 8-10 years?

Excellent point.

I think owners expect the replacement costs to be lower in the next 8-10 years.

They can expect that, but their cars will be dying anyway.

"Toyota's manager of alternative fuels and specialized vehicles, Vic Johnstone, concedes the batteries, like the car itself, are built to last less than a decade. "The life of the car and the battery are supposed to be the same... around 8 to 10 years," he said."

Plus they're paying upwards of $10000 more when buying new compared to a comperable non-hybrid model vehicle and that's probably 5-8 years of gas under normal driving conditions right there.

Hybrids, as they are now, will not save anyone a dime. If anything, they'll cost you much more.

 

[Petebass]

"Toyota's manager of alternative fuels and specialized vehicles, Vic Johnstone, concedes the batteries, like the car itself, are built to last less than a decade. "The life of the car and the battery are supposed to be the same... around 8 to 10 years," he said."

I wonder if asked the same question about "normal" cars and answered honestly, would he say the same thing?

 

[Thor]

Well, during the "Gas Crises" of the 70's, prices did retrench
after the initial price crunch.

One thing that has changed radically is the corporate
landscape of "Big Oil". There is a lot less competition now
given the number of mergers of oil companies, starting
in the early 80's and on through to the present day.

Chevron > Gulf Oil 1984
BP <> Amoco 1998
Exxon <> Mobil 1999
Chevron > Texaco 2001

These companies are so big that they literally rival the
economies of small countries. Its 2005 revenue of
371 billion dollars rivals the GNP of Belgium. Its operating
profit for 2005, USD 36.13 billion, an all time record for
any publicly traded company, is roughly the GNP of
Azerbaijan.

SMASH, yeah, I bought Valero in December. Nothing like
owning a microscopic share in a refinery to ease my pain
at the pump. I have been avoiding the fad TV as well.

But let's face it, there isn't much in the way of competition
there among the good 'ole Texarse bourbon and branch
water crowd, is there?

One interesting polemic satire on corporate states is
'The Space Merchants' by Fred Pohl and C.M. Kornbluth
published in 1953. Quite radical for then. "The Senator from
DuPont Chemicals has the floor". Not far off the mark in my mind.

 

[43% burnt]

$3.03 /gal near me. I unfortunately work far from home, so driving a lot is my only option. Like everyone I'm also very concerned about these predictions of gas prices soaring into the $4+ range.

My friend forwarded this to me today, and I figured this thread would be a good place to post it. This strategy might have already been mentioned...if so i apologize, but I totally plan on doing this.

GAS WAR - an idea that WILL work

This was originally sent by a retired Coca Cola executive. It came from one of his engineer buddies who retired from Halliburton. It ' s worth your consideration.

Join the resistance!!!! I hear we are going to hit close to $4.00 a gallon by next summer and it might go higher!! Want gasoline prices to come down? We need to take some intelligent, united action. Phillip Hollsworth offered this good idea.

This makes MUCH MORE SENSE than the "don't buy gas on a certain day" campaign that was going around last April or May! The oil companies just laughed at that because they knew we wouldn't continue to "hurt" ourselves by refusing to buy gas. It was more of an inconvenience to us than it was a problem for them.

BUT, whoever thought of this idea, has come up with a plan that can really work. Please read on and join with us! By now you're probably thinking gasoline priced at about $1.50 is super cheap. Me too! It is currently $2.79 for regular unleaded in my town. Now that the oil companies and the OPEC nations have conditioned us to think that the cost of a gallon of gas is CHEAP at $1.50 - $1.75, we need to take aggressive action to teach them that BUYERS control the
marketplace..... not sellers. With the price of gasoline going up more each day, we consumers need to take action. The only way we are going to see the price of gas come down is if we hit someone in the pocketbook by not purchasing their gas! And, we can do that WITHOUT hurting ourselves. How? Since we all rely on our cars, we can't just stop buying gas. But we CAN have an impact on gas prices if we all act together to force a price war.

Here's the idea:

For the rest of this year, DON'T purchase ANY gasoline from the two biggest companies (which now are one), EXXON and MOBIL. If they are not selling any gas, they will be inclined to reduce their prices. If they reduce their prices, the other companies will have to follow suit.

But to have an impact, we need to reach literally millions of Exxon and Mobil gas buyers. It's really simple to do! Now, don't wimp out at this point.... keep reading and I'll explain how simple it is to reach millions of people.

I am sending this note to 30 people. If each of us sends it to at least ten more (30 x 10 =3D 300) ... and those 300 send it to at least ten more (300 x 10 =3D 3,000)...and so on, by the time the message reaches the sixth group of people, we will have reached over THREE MILLION consumers. If those three million get excited and pass this on to ten friends each, then 30 million people will have been contacted! If it goes one level further, you guessed it..... THREE
>>>>HUNDRED MILLION >>>>PEOPLE!!!

Again, all you have to do is send this to 10 people. That's all. (If you don't understand how we can reach 300 million and all you have to do is send this to 10 people.... Well, let's face it, you just aren't a mathematician. But I am, so trust me on this one.)

How long would all that take? If each of us sends this e-mail out to ten more people within one day of receipt, all 300 MILLION people could conceivably be contacted within the next 8 days!!!

I'll bet you didn't think you and I had that much potential, did you?

Acting together we can make a difference. If this makes sense to you, please pass this message on. I suggest that we not buy from EXXON/MOBIL UNTIL THEY LOWER THEIR PRICES TO THE $1.30 RANGE AND KEEP THEM DOWN.

THIS CAN REALLY WORK

Spread the word.