• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Kanye West is a douche

#42
hbarcat said:
You're missing the point. Imagination in music is almost DEAD! The top of the charts these days is saturated with remakes of songs from past decades. New songs are almost entirely created by "artists" getting their ideas by filling in templates on computer programs. Genuine music that is fresh and innovative is usually ridiculed as unapproachable and boring and so few listen to it that it gets little support.

The typical popular music listener isn't even interested enough in quality to care whether or not the song has a beginning or end, dynamics or phrasing, melody or harmony; as long as it has a HOOK with a driving beat that can be heard loud and clear on their iPod, then they're convinced that they're hearing music perfection. :rollno:
Click to expand...

That's really nothing new...it's pretty much the way it's been since at least the 50s. Think of the most popular music throughout the last 50 years...it's not really meant for the MUSICIAN to enjoy, but instead it's made for the average person. However, there has always been, and always will be music that exists on the fringes, that will satisfy all of us that require a little bit of depth in the music we listen to. It may be hard to find somewhere, but I promise you it's out there. You might not get rich playing it, but it's still rewarding. Even if YOU'RE the only one that notices that depth.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BboogieXVII
#43
hbarcat said:
You're missing the point. Imagination in music is almost DEAD! The top of the charts these days is saturated with remakes of songs from past decades. New songs are almost entirely created by "artists" getting their ideas by filling in templates on computer programs. Genuine music that is fresh and innovative is usually ridiculed as unapproachable and boring and so few listen to it that it gets little support.

The typical popular music listener isn't even interested enough in quality to care whether or not the song has a beginning or end, dynamics or phrasing, melody or harmony; as long as it has a HOOK with a driving beat that can be heard loud and clear on their iPod, then they're convinced that they're hearing music perfection. :rollno:
Click to expand...

Mod Scotty said:
That's really nothing new...it's pretty much the way it's been since at least the 50s. Think of the most popular music throughout the last 50 years...it's not really meant for the MUSICIAN to enjoy, but instead it's made for the average person. However, there has always been, and always will be music that exists on the fringes, that will satisfy all of us that require a little bit of depth in the music we listen to. It may be hard to find somewhere, but I promise you it's out there. You might not get rich playing it, but it's still rewarding. Even if YOU'RE the only one that notices that depth.
Click to expand...

IMHO, sampling seems like a crutch to me. It's a quick way to make money by taking a part of a crappy, popular song from past and turning in into a modern day crappy song for a new generation to get absolutely sick of.
 
#45
Spector_Ray said:
IMHO, sampling seems like a crutch to me. It's a quick way to make money by taking a part of a crappy, popular song from past and turning in into a modern day crappy song for a new generation to get absolutely sick of.
Click to expand...

Bit of a blanket statement there eh?

To me, the best sampling is done with layers of disparate musical elements and with fairly unknown source material. Even some well known samples can become something wholly different as a part of a larger mosaic of sound - it depends on the creativity of the person doing the sampling.

I would agree if you are talking about wholesale appropriation in the sense of just taking an older song and using it pretty much uncut as the basis for a new song.

Then again, that phenomenon is not endemic to sampling and hip-hop. But then it's not called sampling, just ripping off. And I'm shocked at how many people get away with it.

Like say Paris Hilton stealing outright from UB40

Or the Invalid Link Removed.

And while I believe it was unintentional, how about Dani California having the same chord changes and almost the same rhythm as Mary Jane's Last Dance?

Hell, how many bands have used the chord changes from Pacabel's Canon?
 
  • Like
Reactions: GregC
#46
Frankly, if Kanye's performance would've been worthy, I'd have enjoyed it... But, he literally stopped a few times trying to think of crap to say. It was pretty horrible, & he even made fun of himself for messing it up.

BTW, how short is he.... or did he just LOOK like a midget standing next to LeBron!
 
#48
Drake Kennedy said:
I think the sampling in that song is top notch, actually. He develops a different melody with the samples, as opposed to just rapping over them. The song also has a great structure that moves and builds up. As far as sampling goes, this is one of the best examples I can name. Any of the haters care to explain their POV?
Click to expand...

Uh, the ORIGINAL song has a great structure that moves and builds up. Kanye's take is absolutely stagnant next to it.
 
#52
Drake Kennedy said:
You mean the "original" done by Daft Punk, or Cola Bottle Baby by Edwin Birdsong? It seems odd that people are criticizing Kanye for sampling a song...made of samples.
Click to expand...

dhc's criticism isn't the use of samples. it's the squandering and/or poor use of said samples.

daft punk took a sample and made it "their own," so to speak.

kanye took a sample and tried to force a square peg in a round hole.


now, i'm not a huge kanye fan or anything, but i've heard songs of his that seemed to have good uses of samples. this new one, though, just sounds really bad.
 
#53
Brad Barker said:
dhc's criticism isn't the use of samples. it's the squandering and/or poor use of said samples.

daft punk took a sample and made it "their own," so to speak.

kanye took a sample and tried to force a square peg in a round hole.


now, i'm not a huge kanye fan or anything, but i've heard songs of his that seemed to have good uses of samples. this new one, though, just sounds really bad.
Click to expand...
Actually, I'd care to argue exactly the opposite. Kanye changed the structure of the song, and added new melody and chord progressions. Daft Punk pretty much just made the Birdsong song into an electronic remix.
 
#55
Kanye is a douche for what comes out of his mouth when he ISN'T performing. Debating his use, or re-use of samples, and his originality or lack thereof is pointless. Nothing is new under the sun in music. I can listen to today's music, and call out the references and direct quotes from other artists of the past literally phrase-by-phrase.

That said, I think he sucks regardless. I don't think he sucks because he steals. Everyone "steals" in a manner of speaking, at this point. It's all been done. That doesn't mean that new artists don't come out, and make music that pleases me...I just don't labor under the dilusion that anything is "new" anymore.

In a way, I kind of respect music that doesn't really try to hide its influences, but instead righteously "gives a nod" to the true origin of these influences, essentially treating them as basic rock constructs.
 
#57
Also, anybody who says that there isn't anything "new" or "original" to be played isn't trying hard enough. I think it's a cop-out. There are plenty of people making original music that isn't a rip off. Just because something might coincidentally be similar to something that someone else played somewhere in space and time doesn't make it a rip off or unoriginal. There is an infinite number of possibilities for music. It reminds me of the people who said 100 years ago that we know everything about physics that there is to know. Nonsense.

- Dave
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back