keyboard and bass interfering with each other?

[74hc]

Yep. Tell the keys player to lay off the left hand. Better yet, tie it behind his back.

I back up a choir and we have 3 piano players (not at the same time but in the rotation). Two of them cannot play the right hand without playing the left hand. That's all they've done, and hard for them to overcome this.

So in the end, the piano player and the two acoustic guitar players overplay like they are the band themselves. The guitar lead noodles, basically solos for the entire song or hymm, and has a tendency to head into inappropriate scale and notes at times. This makes it sound like we're playing in the wrong key at times.

So in the end, nobody sits in the mix well at all. The music director doesn't see this issue that much, and some have the view of "the more, the merrier".

But hey, we've fired the drummer! She rarely shows up anymore.

 

[Lynwood32]

Problem is KB player. Solutions:
KB keeps left hand above middle C

KB player only use double stops with left hand.

KB player sets bass tone on his amp to no more than 9:00.

KB player not use left hand

KB player never use full chords with left or right hands

KB player is now in a full band and has to play less throughout the whole KB

If the music has no space, then it's just mud

Fire KB player
Quit yourself

This type of dissonance in the music is unbearable and is not worth putting up with

 

[morgansterne]

I play keys in a classic rock/soul band and my rule is, no left hand bass octaves. These sound great on a piano, playing solo, but in a band setting, not so much. When I play left hand bass -- which I do like to add when the guitar stops playing chords to do a solo -- I move it up as close as possible to the right hand.
I have to do an awful lot of "left hand chords with the right hand playing a horn/organ/synth part" in this band, which also is a good way of keeping the keys player out of your territory!

 

[happycat]

I have had the opposite problem for the last 5 months. I am normally keys only but our bass player moved on. I have had to learn all of the annoying keyboard player habits except for where I pick up my bass guitar for songs that need a really strong bass groove that I can't get in laying keys
And yes, I have been playing bass for years and and changed to keys 18 months ago

 

[musicman7722]

When I mix a keyboard in a band I roll about 150 and below way down. Same with guitars. this frees up the frequency space for the bass.

 

[Kevin1960]

It's the player, not the EQ or equipment. If you turn the bass way down on his channel, it will just make the whole keyboard sound like crap. There are fundamentals, overtones, and a host of other physics issues that we need not get into here. The simple fact is that if he is used to playing solo, or with a bass player who just doesn't care, he is unaware of what he is doing. He needs to be informed that there is a bass player in this band and he need not try to sound like the left hand of God on a 20ft Steinway all the time.

Imagine having two bass players in a band, both playing similar parts in the same range. Now, imagine what it would sound like if you simply tried to use EQ to keep them from stepping on each other. At least one of those basses is going to sound like crap (and more likely both). There is no difference here. Two instruments capable of the same range playing similar parts. Not only are there sound issues, but rhythm and phasing ones as well. He could be playing a slightly different line, but very similar to what you are doing. Now THAT will simply make the bottom sound like a hot mess and no amount of EQing will fix it.

Short version: Make him aware that he needs to play keys and let you play bass (in a diplomatic way, of course). But, be forewarned. We like to piss and moan about guitar players around here. But I have never met more deaf, and hard to get along with players than keys guys. Oy.

This. Been there and done that. It's one thing to have him occasionally step on your line it is quite another to have a keyboard player walk all over it like your not even there. The idea here is to spread the freq. range out a bit and share. The keys have a lot of places to go freq. wise that you can not touch. Diplomacy should work like is suggested here. Keep in mind, your eventual goals should be shared for the song.

 

[Mushroo]

I like the suggestion for the keyboard player to bring a small amp of his own. Try putting the bass into the PA as well, so you are "part of the mix." And definitely make sure both the bass and keyboard channel have proper EQ and compression/limiting. Both keyboards and bass can be very dynamic instruments, and if you don't tame those peaks, it's easy to step on each other's toes.

It sounds like you mix your own band from the stage, and you don't have a dedicated sound engineer? That's fine, but do you maybe know anyone whose opinion you trust who runs live sound, or has a recording studio, etc.? Why not hire them for an afternoon, to come down to your band's practice space, and give you some good advice on mixing. Often it is easier for band members to put aside their ego and agree to changes, if the constructive criticism is coming from a consultant outside the band.

 

[happycat]

The same issue can happen with guitars and keys as well. Same basic solution works here - give each other some space which may be as simple as moving up a little or using different chord voicing

 

[12BitSlab]

I played in a band with a very good keyboard player who was classically trained. I had to very diplomatically show him how to play two handed chords and he took to it. Improved the sound of the band immensely.

 

[Lynwood32]

Only one cure. KB player needs to learn to play in a band that has a bass player. Absolutely stay away from lower register chords, ply only 2 to 3 not chords with left hand and only few large chords with the right hand. It's all about playing your part only and let the music breathe. The problem is KB players have the capability of playing everybody's part and sometimes tend to do so. Not good!

 

[Wasnex]

Ok, so a very good friend of mine has started playing keyboard with us and he's awesome. The only problem is that the last time we played live, it makes it difficult to hear my bass cut through the mix.

It would help if the keyboardist reduced bass, played lighter with his left hand, or revoiced cords to play less in your range.

Perhaps it would be better if you moved over to the other side of the stage with the guitarist...or this could be worse.

At the very least try to increase the distance between your amp and the keyboard amp.

Getting your speakers close to your ears or aimed at your ears would give you more of the frequencies that help you to hear articulation. You could also boost mid range and treble frequencies. Boosting lower mids may actually make matters worse.

 

[JohnnyBottom]

1 word. High Pass Filter

 

[godofthunder59]

They keyboard player needs to understand that this is a band situation, not a one man show. He needs to lay off the left hand and stay out of your sonic territory.

 

[grouse789]

A place for everything and everything in its place.
Keyboardist can play the low notes, fine. But the frequencies below say 250 should be cut out. Now, you have your space. Hi-pass filter on the mixing board?

 

[40Hz]

If he’s your friend as well as the new kid on the block I suggest you “bell the cat” and get this fixed pronto. If you don’t, it’ll be a never ending source of annoyance and frustration if it’s allowed to continue for any length of time. Once habits set in it’s twice as difficult to correct a problem.

 

[rtslinger]

Need him to back off playing the left hand parts. I had to work with my keyboard player when he first started, never been in a band with a bass player before. So he was doubling my lines, not helpful if you want to drop from the pocket and add a spin of your own.