Keyboard player quits over jam space rent.

[JimmyM]

Sorry, but I would be out, too, especially if it got sprung on me after two months, and double especially if it cost $400 a month and the band only had a couple gigs per month. Good keyboard players have no problem getting gigs where there's not a price of admission like that, so where's the incentive?

 

[Grumry]

Just buy a trailer or some other small dwelling with less than a $400 mortgage that you can practice in, then rent it out the other 98% of it's existence.

 

[Feral Feline]

Discuss it like reasonable adults, whether you decide to cover it or have keys help cover it ... and if he still wants to go – so be it.

 

[Korladis]

Hi Folks,

So a quick back story. I'm in a band with some long time friends. For about 4 years, we were playing origionals, but in the last few months, we decided to switch over to top 40 covers.

The band was, a 4 peice, voc/guitar, guitar, bass and drums.

The lead guitarist and I work together, and a new girl started at our work. We found out shes a singer, and was looking for a band. We had her out and it has worked out great. Shes young, (23, and we're 40) very pretty, and an awesome singer and person. Its great to have 2 vocalists, andcthey work really well together.

We decided to add keys. I put a couple of ads out in the local classified sites, and we had a guy come out. He came prepared and ready with the songs we asked him to learn. We are thrilled with what he brings to the band. Hes a bit shy and quiet, but a nice guy.

Here's where the problem starts.

We have a rehearsal space that the origional 4 of us have rented for years. We pay $400 per month and we have 24/7 access to it. The 4 of us have been paying for it with past gig money, and when no gigs are on the books, we just split the cost evenly. No big deal.

With the new members getting up to speed and no gigs on the books, the 4 of us decided to cover the cost for a couple of months until we decided if the new members were sticking around.

Well, this month, we decided to bring up the rent contribution, and the female vocalist had zero problem, but the keyboard player decided he did have a problem, and sent us a group text stating ge didnt want to have to spend money to rehearse and he is out.

Very disappointing, because we've worked hard, gotten about 20 songs together in a short period of time, and soon, would be playing gigs to cover the room cost anyway.

My question to you is, would you write him off? Should we just not charge him, as weve been paying already anyway?

Thanks for reading.

Write him off, yes. The other new member apparently has no problems paying studio rent.

Honestly, I don't see what his problem is.

 

[Korladis]

I'm sorry did you say you pay $400 a month for a rehearsal space? That's absolutely insane. im 36 and have been playing in bands since my teens and have never paid half that.

No it isn't. Depending on his area, it may even be cheap. My band pays $38 per head, but that's only because we split rent with 11 other people.

Our past rehearsal space was a bit over $500, IIRC.

 

[matante]

Not picking on you, OP. But you and your three buddies never had a band. You have a hobby.

???

A band that plays for the fun of making music is just as much of a band as one that plays for the income.

 

[Deleted member 261632]

It should have been covered at the audition, that if he was in the band, he would contribute his share. But no, I would not carry him.

What he said...

 

[hsech]

I understand his point. In my case, I live over 50 miles from practice. 100 miles round trip. Gigs are always at least 100 miles round trip. I wouldn't put out that much for a practice space, but that's just me.

 

[beaglesandbass]

My question to you is, would you write him off? Should we just not charge him, as weve been paying already anyway?

I didn't read the rest of this thread I just wanted to respond to this.

Yes write him off. Do NOT not charge him. That'd be unfair to everyone and would probably make him feel above you.

 

[StayLow]

It should have been covered at the audition, that if he was in the band, he would contribute his share. But no, I would not carry him.

Agreed.

Better yet, cover it before ever hosting an audition. I've never considered auditioning for a band without asking all the basics, certainly including this topic. IMO it's a big red flag if I even have to ask. Both sides erred here.

To the OP:

If it means gigging, consider keeping him while to find a replacement. If he's not paying, then effectively he's being paid to play like a hired gun therefore should need no rehearsal time whatsoever presuming your songs all have proper recordings whether originals or covers.

Alternately, just hire an actual pro until you find a proper band mate.

 

[two fingers]

???

A band that plays for the fun of making music is just as much of a band as one that plays for the income.

Sorry. That came out wrong. I'm not saying they can't be making great music. I was only implying that this is not a business....not even a side business....to them. They put more in (financially) than they get out. This is poker night with guitars, not a money maker.

I could have worded it better....

 

[ashtray]

You can't carry a person without them paying rent, bc another band member will then say "hey, I don't want to pay rent either!".

That said, a compromise could be that you all agree that your gig money will cover the rent and anything extra gets distributed. If you are short on rent one month, hopefully its not by much, and the other 5 people can just pitch in to cover it. But hopefully the BL would be able to book well paying gigs that cover the rent and then some.

That might be a way the keyboardist would agree to stay, and technically he would be paying rent - he just wouldn't ever be out of pocket for it. And everyone would leave a gig with no bills in their pockets.

Honestly, if everyone is just in it as a fun hobby (nothing wrong with that!), then the expense might be a huge turnoff. If I were practicing weekly and gigging every other week and basically breaking even every month, it might feel like a lot of work for nothing after a while.

As for 24/7 access to the practice space - does anyone really need this? Or is this just a place you and/or the guitarist like to go hang out at in the middle of the night as a place away from your home? Bc if so, why should the other members foot the bill for your hangout pad?

 

[Mark McClelland]

I know you have a ton or replies on here but I have a slightly off topic suggestion. What you're doing is great and I've thought of this model a lot myself. Why not keep the originals project but give it a different name? That way the covers money could fund it and you'll probably also find yourself creating a lot more opportunities for the original stuff than you would have before as you'll be able to invest in it now. And in my experience, originals gigs tend to be during the week with paying gigs more toards the weekend. I kind of do something similar myself.

 

[two fingers]

I know you have a ton or replies on here but I have a slightly off topic suggestion. What you're doing is great and I've thought of this model a lot myself. Why not keep the originals project but give it a different name? That way the covers money could fund it and you'll probably also find yourself creating a lot more opportunities for the original stuff than you would have before as you'll be able to invest in it now. And in my experience, originals gigs tend to be during the week with paying gigs more toards the weekend. I kind of do something similar myself.

Actually, he indicated earlier that they made more money doing the originals project than they are now.....

 

[StayLow]

No it isn't. Depending on his area, it may even be cheap. My band pays $38 per head, but that's only because we split rent with 11 other people. Our past rehearsal space was a bit over $500, IIRC.

Exactly. One of mine's $700/mo. and very well worth it for the space, amenities, and location, location, location.

 

[hrodbert696]

Sorry, but I would be out, too, especially if it got sprung on me after two months, and double especially if it cost $400 a month and the band only had a couple gigs per month. Good keyboard players have no problem getting gigs where there's not a price of admission like that, so where's the incentive?

That was my reaction too. If you look at it from the keys player's perspective, there are two issues: 1) if these people are springing a hidden expense on me now, what else are they going to spring on me in another two months? and 2) can I get a slot in another band that won't charge me to rehearse? Question 1 makes him leery of you, and question 2 assures him that, keys being in demand, he'll have little trouble finding a better situation.

The other thing is that, in my opinion, the group is too big for a starting-out cover band. Unless your market is a lot stronger than mine or your marketing skills and connections much stronger, you might have taken in $100 a man when you were a four-piece but you won't continue doing so as a six-piece. The bar doesn't care how many musicians you have, he cares how many people show up to see you and how much they spend on drinks. You can bring in two additional members but you're still going to get the same $400 a gig. So this keys player isn't calculating $67 a month out of his $200, more like out of his $133 for two gigs - so now it's literally HALF his gig income.

@two fingers said you didn't have a band, you have a hobby. I would say, sure it's a band, because I'm happy to call any group of people making music a band, however ephemeral the combination. But what it's not is a business. Your approach is to say your gigging ("easily") covers the expense of the practice space and it sounds like anything left over is gravy. But most cover band musicians are not looking at it that way, they're asking what situation gets them bringing home the best money at the end of the night. It's not a full-time job that pays the rent for most, but if they wanted to play for gravy they would look for gigs where they could play jazz or old-school blues or prog for an hour and not have to haul gear, not three hours of top-40.

At the end of the day, I would let the keys player go (maybe a follow up call to say sorry about how that was handled and make sure you're not burning bridges, in case you want him for another project later). I would also consider not replacing him, and go over your repertoire to figure out how to play without him. Is the keys part needed on all songs? Are there parts where a guitar can cover the keys line? If there's a bit that absolutely has to be there, can the singer or one of the other band members do it just for that bit? There are lots and lots of songs you don't need keys for. I don't think I've ever gigged with a dedicated keys player, to be honest, except for subbing this one time with a Blues Brothers tribute act.

 

[japhy4529]

I'm sorry did you say you pay $400 a month for a rehearsal space? That's absolutely insane. im 36 and have been playing in bands since my teens and have never paid half that.

Heck my old band used to pay that much per month back in the late 90s/early 2000s! I'm talking 16+ years ago. This was a nice, secure rehearsal/recording studio in Philadelphia. Rent included a separate, locked practice space and small P.A. The only downside (in addition to the cost) was no heat or A/C, though we could bring in our own and all of us did. In retrospect, it really was a hobby for us as most of us had full-time day jobs (except for the singer who was homeless and living out of his truck at the time - long story) and as an original band we didn't gig enough most months to break even.

 

[Mark McClelland]

Actually, he indicated earlier that they made more money doing the originals project than they are now.....

Fair enough. As I said, I hadn't read the whole thread so I missed that

 

[bassboysam]

You only gig a couple times a month? How many times do you rehearse a month????

Think about it. If you average $100 per man per gig that's $200 a month. $67 is a THIRD of that! Plus, if you are rehearsing at least once a week, there's the cost of getting to and from every rehearsal.

Not picking on you, OP. But you and your three buddies never had a band. You have a hobby. You are breaking even at best not even counting the hours you are putting in to this thing. In fact, I would bet that if you include travel time to gigs, travel to and from rehearsals, rehearsal time, practice at home time and gig time you are probably making about a buck an hour if anything.

Yes, I'm making a TON OF assumptions. I'm probably incorrect on a couple points. But it doesn't seem like a money maker for anybody.

Be up front with the next guy about how much you expect they will earn and what the costs are. Unless you guys are making a lot more at gigs than I think you are, your members don't net $100 a month, and probably a lot less than that.

I probably would have backed out too....not via text mind you.

since when is a definition of band based on whether or not you are profitable?

 

[mcnach]

Yeah but did you get 24/7 access with your $150/month?

do you need 24/7 access?

it's nice, but... I know with my bands a lot of that time would be wasted:

- wasted during scheduled practice because we don't have someone saying 'time's up' after the 2h session

- wasted because there's no way we'd make many more rehearsals/writing sessions

- we do 'quiet' sessions at somebody's place when we're just looking to write new stuff... it's not a proper rehearsal

I guess the drummer would like it as a place to go whenever and practice. I would like it too... but I just don't see the 24/7 access as such a big deal. So I can see why a keyboard player may pass if he's looking to make some money: it's a sizeable chunk to give away, especially when there are not gigs planned yet, and when it seems there would only be a couple of them each month.