Keyboard player quits over jam space rent.

[Nev375]

We do not do pay to play gigs......ever.

I'm curious why not?

You'll pay $100 each a month to play in front of 4 walls, but you won't pay a dime to play in front of people.

 

[D-Smith]

This may have been stated already, buy why not just treat him like a hired gun? Don't pay him for practice/rehearsal, but don't ask him to spend money on it either. Agree on a set pay scale for gigs. Don't ask him for money for expenses, don't pay him less than agreed for gigs that don't pay well, but don't pay him more for the good paying gigs. This may be what he wants anyway.

 

[40Hz]

Times have changed in music. So I won't comment with some others on how much or little rehearsal time should be scheduled, or what the economics are, or what your goals should be, or what constitutes a "real" as opposed to "hobby" band. That just tends to open up a can of worms around here.

To the OP's original question however I'll just say I think every person in an actual band (as opposed to a ensemble working for a BL) needs to be on the same page and get the same deal. Otherwise it's only a matter of time before it all blows up.

So…better communication up front. And if there are shared responsibilities (like rent or other band expenses to cover), they have to be agreed upon and genuinely shared. No exceptions.

 

[Buszkock]

I'm sorry did you say you pay $400 a month for a rehearsal space? That's absolutely insane. im 36 and have been playing in bands since my teens and have never paid half that.

He's from CA, so maybe he means $300 USD. I'm from NY so $300 / month for rehearsal space would be a great price. Just depends where you are, condition of the place, amenities etc.

 

[RickyWoo]

I wouldn't "write him off" right away. I'd give him the chance to think about contributing to the rehearsal space, financially, for a bit. If his thoughts don't change, that's unfortunate for all. It's standard practice to pay for rehearsal space. Maybe he'd be willing to take a cut on his dividends for gig revenue? After all, you say "no big deal" in your OP, yet, money can be a big deal to a lot of other folks. Maybe they're strapped. Maybe they'd take a cut instead of paying upfront.

Good luck.

 

[ZAR14]

I'll bring both points of view. I can see his side if the talk of "Rent" was never brought up before. If you are not currently playing out or have future prospects, I'd wonder why the talk of money suddenly comes up.
However, almost Nothing in life is Free, I would lay it all out for him and say "This is our situation. We rent this space and it's not Free, all members contribute equally"....
I have been presented with a similar situation. Band I was in took a break from gigging and wanted to relocate rehearsals to a different location that charged rent. I broke it down to the rest of the band this way..
"You want to take a break from gigging, which means this band is NOT generating an income, and also move rehersals to a place where we pay rent, money going out. So No money coming In, but money going out. Doesn't sound like a.Good business decision to me"...

 

[buldog5151bass]

No matter what treat everyone the same. The new singer agreed to chip in. If she finds out that the other complained, and was rewarded withno charge, what do you think she is gonna think?

 

[static0verdrive]

In my mind, other than it should have been mentioned at audition, it should have been made clear that gigs would help cover it. If it was, whenever it was brought up, and he still wanted to go, I would not open the can of worms of covering him. Everyone else will start to wonder if they can get covered by simply threatening to quit... and hey, it was the keys, nothing else which would be arguably more important

 

[brianrost]

rental space is just the cost of doing business these days.

In 36 years I've been in exactly one band that rented a rehearsal space.

 

[shwabilly]

He's from CA, so maybe he means $300 USD. I'm from NY so $300 / month for rehearsal space would be a great price. Just depends where you are, condition of the place, amenities etc.

The rehearsal space we play in is an old school that has been converted to rehearsal spaces. So there is probably im guessing, 60 or more bands in this building. Its actually been really cool as we've networked with a lot of the bands, gigged together, gained contacts for gigs and even jammed with other people.

The facility is pretty nice. Very secure
You need a key to get in the building itself, and each room is keypadded. Cameras in all the halls.

We feel it works for us. We all have wives and kids, so for any of us that want a place to practice uninterupted, its handy.

 

[Lowness]

You should have brought it up at the audition.

 

[shwabilly]

In my mind, other than it should have been mentioned at audition, it should have been made clear that gigs would help cover it. If it was, whenever it was brought up, and he still wanted to go, I would not open the can of worms of covering him. Everyone else will start to wonder if they can get covered by simply threatening to quit... and hey, it was the keys, nothing else which would be arguably more important

It did end up being mentioned to him that gig money would go toward covering the cost.

 

[shwabilly]

Wow, reading these responses you'd think the OP has committed some kind of musical crime. Imagine, actually paying for a rehearsal space.....and using it regularly!!
For those of you that live in villages or have a big basement; commercial space isn't cheap in and around Toronto. $400/mo is a GOOD DEAL here.
For those that don't rehearse and measure success in $$$$. Go fish.....some people like to get out with their friends and play. $100.00/month is cheap when you consider you could always go bowling instead. Or try go out to a bar each week and see how far $25.00 gets you.
Trust me, we're all intensely proud that some of you play in cover acts that don't need or want to rehearse. Good for you and nobody holds it against you but the OP asked for a bit of advice over his ex keyboard player not a lecture on how to spend his Friday nights.
I say keep the keys, pay his freight for now and have fun. You're already down to $80.00 each, another $13.00 wouldn't make a difference to me.

I really should have known i was going to get flamed on here a bit. Its just the way it is. But that being said, there is some food for thought.

 

[fingerguy]

Hi Folks,

So a quick back story. I'm in a band with some long time friends. For about 4 years, we were playing origionals, but in the last few months, we decided to switch over to top 40 covers.

The band was, a 4 peice, voc/guitar, guitar, bass and drums.

The lead guitarist and I work together, and a new girl started at our work. We found out shes a singer, and was looking for a band. We had her out and it has worked out great. Shes young, (23, and we're 40) very pretty, and an awesome singer and person. Its great to have 2 vocalists, andcthey work really well together.

We decided to add keys. I put a couple of ads out in the local classified sites, and we had a guy come out. He came prepared and ready with the songs we asked him to learn. We are thrilled with what he brings to the band. Hes a bit shy and quiet, but a nice guy.

Here's where the problem starts.

We have a rehearsal space that the origional 4 of us have rented for years. We pay $400 per month and we have 24/7 access to it. The 4 of us have been paying for it with past gig money, and when no gigs are on the books, we just split the cost evenly. No big deal.

With the new members getting up to speed and no gigs on the books, the 4 of us decided to cover the cost for a couple of months until we decided if the new members were sticking around.

Well, this month, we decided to bring up the rent contribution, and the female vocalist had zero problem, but the keyboard player decided he did have a problem, and sent us a group text stating ge didnt want to have to spend money to rehearse and he is out.

Very disappointing, because we've worked hard, gotten about 20 songs together in a short period of time, and soon, would be playing gigs to cover the room cost anyway.

My question to you is, would you write him off? Should we just not charge him, as weve been paying already anyway?

Thanks for reading.

Dude, if a person feels that way I wouldn't even post about it. Move on and find a new player. Eagles had no issues replacing people, why would you?

 

[Buszkock]

since Talkbass

haha, right?
Yeah, since my friends and I rock harder than a mountain but for our ears only I tell people what, I'm in a hobby?
I love being in a hobby. We've been in a hobby together for years.
Ridiculous snobbishness if you ask me!

 

[JRA]

The rehearsal space we play in is an old school that has been converted to rehearsal spaces. So there is probably im guessing, 60 or more bands in this building. Its actually been really cool as we've networked with a lot of the bands, gigged together, gained contacts for gigs and even jammed with other people.
The facility is pretty nice. Very secure
You need a key to get in the building itself, and each room is keypadded. Cameras in all the halls.
We feel it works for us. We all have wives and kids, so for any of us that want a place to practice uninterupted, its handy.

you're doing what you want/have to do to make your situation work. nobody here walks in your shoes: so any advice is just 'us' trying to imagine what we might do. you referred to the 'flaming' you can get on TB: that's because everyone here is an 'expert' until they go looking for advice/counsel/opinions. ha!

bottom line: hope things work out for you and the band: sounds like loyalty and commitment is not a problem for the 'members'. good luck!

 

[Siggy]

I wouldn't baby the KB. It will cause dissension in the long run. If you do, what's to say he wont threaten to quit whenever he doesn't get his way.

 

[DWBass]

I've been in 2 bands where they rehearsed in storage units. I never paid a dime. The BL's must have used gig money to help with the cost. I know one was around $200 per mo. Don't know what the other band was paying but I was never asked. The second band wouldn't dare ask as I was driving 40+ miles to get there. My current band rehearses in a room at the BL's house. I have a room in my house we can use if it came to it. Plus I don't have a job at the moment so helping pay for a storage unit is out of the question. If I had to, I'd much prefer a rehearsal studio for $20-$30hr split between the 7 people in my current band. Storage unit? Heck no. You're paying for a month but how many times do you rehearse?? Nope. Not me.

 

[EdO.]

The goal has been January. Things started slow, but have been progressing faster. Actually discussed the rate we were working on songs with the keys player a couple of weeks ago, and the amount of songs we were learning a week were what he was comfortable with.

There seems to me to be a huge disconnect here, and not just this specific topic but on this entire forum in general, between what constitutes well experienced "weekend warriors" and "pros". I've played in bands on and off (more on by a whole bunch) for 40+ years, I know my $hit. I can work up 40 - 50 cover songs pretty quickly depending on common-ness etc. BUT putting that together from basically scratch with 3 - 4 other players even at the same level of ability, experience etc (not that I'm a virtuso or anything, I'm definitely not) is going to take a bit of time IF you really want it to sound like you know what you're doing. A hand full of practices and we're gigging isn't realistic for the majority, ESPECIALLY for us weekend warrior types (and I say that, again, having 40+ years of doing just that). Stated it many times before and I'll say it again - I've seen PLENTY of bands with obviously really good players that come in sounding like they just threw it together with minimal practice just so they can get paid to play somewhere. It's obvious and don't think an audience can't and won't pick up on that.

For those that don't rehearse and measure success in $$$$. Go fish.....some people like to get out with their friends and play. $100.00/month is cheap when you consider you could always go bowling instead. Or try go out to a bar each week and see how far $25.00 gets you.
Trust me, we're all intensely proud that some of you play in cover acts that don't need or want to rehearse. Good for you and nobody holds it against you but ...

OF COURSE there are a (small) percentage of players who can do that, throw it together with minimal practice AND sound like pros. BUT the vast majority of those folks ARE pros (defined as - playing pretty much for a living) so they'd BETTER be able to do that. Most of THOSE folks aren't playing in weekend cover bands for $300 - 400 a night. There's the disconnect. Yeah, go out and just hire a pro to fill in. There may be some of that around where I am but if so I'm not connected to it. It's not as easy as some of you pro's would have the rest of us believe, dependent of course on where you're located. Sure, once it's all up and running and has taken on a life of it's own the need to practice AS A GROUP becomes minimized (other than for adding new material, patching kinks etc) but it takes time to get there. Give the OP a break.

 

[bassliner50]

Few personal dynamics here. First off, keyboard and especially piano players are typically very independent and have a wide choice of musical opportunities. They are much fewer than guitarists and drummers. They are typically always in high demand.
Secondly, (please don't be offended) from what you've told us, it doesn't sound like your band will be making much money on the long run. I make this statement based on the large number of performers (the more members, the harder to book, money gets split farther, equipment gets abundant, heavy and expensive etc.), also doing original music and the ongoing monthly "rent" obligation which must be met.
If you guys are not expecting this to be a profitable project, just doing it for personal fulfillment, I'd say keep the keyboardist and give him a free ride, even though that may be irritating for some. If he ***still***ends up bailing out after a while then he was never fully committed or happy with the ensemble anyway or maybe he see opportunity elsewhere. If you guys are driven by economics, then let 'em go. That is my honest opinion.
In general a talented attractive female can an asset and a draw.