He's a keyboard player... they can pretty much dictate what they will/will not do.
If you like him (and need him) --- do not charge for rent...
OR good luck finding someone else.
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He's a keyboard player... they can pretty much dictate what they will/will not do.
If you like him (and need him) --- do not charge for rent...
OR good luck finding someone else.
Yep, just write him off. I don't think you can fault anyone for not wanting to cough up the money. At least he didn't complain and just exited the situation.
Hmmm... mixed yes and no from me on this.
I was in a cover band that rehearsed religiously once a week, gigged more like once or twice a month for a year. After about a year or year and a half I had to quit for schedule reasons. They got a guy to replace me, or perhaps rather to sub (I believe they only played one gig after I left). Great guy, great player, had gone to Berklee and all that, and I know he went to rehearsals for a month before that final gig. I was able to go, and I would say he played well and held up his part, but - not to be arrogant, but I could hear that a lot of the nuances I played the songs with weren't there. So based on that experience, yes, time and rehearsal together do count.
On the other hand... later on, I tried starting a new cover band. All people who had done the gigging-cover-band thing before. The explicit goal at the beginning was for everyone to do their homework, put in a couple of months on rehearsals, and get out gigging. The earliest gigs we booked got canceled... rehearsals dragged on for months more... and the group just never really got tight. We played some gigs eventually, and some were pretty good, and others really just weren't. After a year it broke up.
Meanwhile, I had been doing originals with some older guys who were old pros from back in the day. I asked them if they wanted to take over one of the gigs the broken-up band had booked but now couldn't play. They said sure. We pulled up a set list, did a grand total of two rehearsals, played the gig - and were light years better than the rehearse-for-a-year band had ever been.
So I guess my feeling is, I don't know what percentage of weekend warriors are capable of pulling it off, but I do believe it's reasonable to say, like @obimark did, that you can get a crew of guys who know what they're doing, pick a set of familiar standards, and bang out a great gig that sounds tight and the crowd will love with little to no rehearsal. My preference, in an ideal world would be to give a group a couple of months to gel, then start gigging regularly and only hold an occasional rehearsal to freshen up and add some new material.
This has been my biggest pet peeve about auditioning for bands over the years.. i have a simple rule.. if you rehearse more than you play out, It's not a band, it's a social club. I don't need to get out of the house and away from my family once a week to rehearse Brown Eyed Girl for the 10,000th time. I value the time away from my family, and I never split costs with the band on anything unless it it agreed upon in advance. I don't drink at gigs, so don't expect me to pitch in on the bar tab, I bring my own gear which I take care of carefully, so don't expect me to pitch in for new cables for the band.. I don't expect to pay my mortgage playing out, but I also don't expect to lose money either....
What exactly is " doing it for a living " actually mean ? I've been playing for 40+ years, paid taxes on that income for most of that time. Is that doing it for a living ? I've also worked various day jobs, mostly for benefits. Does that mean I'm not doing it for a living? Weekend warriors ? Okay, I know musicians who play 5 nights a week who come home with $300 in their pockets at the end of the week. Is that doing it for a living? I play one wedding in a week and make $300. Where does that put me ? Too me, playing music is part of my annual income, complete with taxes paid and deductions taken. My accountant sure as hell thinks I do this for a living !
When a substantial amount of your income comes from playing. Like if you stopped gigging you wouldn't be able to pay rent / mortgage, not just be unable to buy new gear.
I love how this thread has gone from me asking a question, to people telling me that i dont have a band, I have a hobby.
In the past, we have made more money than we have put in. Switching over to covers has created a transition period for us, where we are not gigging until we are up to speed with learning all these songs.
Simply put. We will be gigging regularily, which the keys player's other band is not doing, and he's not interested in putting forth rent during this transition period. I respect his decision. As far as i know, he may be already paying for rehearsal with his other band, and he has reached his limit.
In the past, we have made more money than we have put in. Switching over to covers has created a transition period for us, where we are not gigging until we are up to speed with learning all these songs.
Simply put. We will be gigging regularily, which the keys player's other band is not doing, and he's not interested in putting forth rent during this transition period. I respect his decision. As far as i know, he may be already paying for rehearsal with his other band, and he has reached his limit.
Yeah, maybe should have gave him a heads up early on. But you can't let him ride for free now and charge everyone else. That'll be a problem for everyone else real quick.
For one thing, if you have 24/7 access it can be assumed you're not sharing the space, so you can store a rig there permanently and not have to setup/break down for each rehearsal.
Then again, in paid r/h spaces I've used (infrequently) there is backline present to use, which is nice, although the gear is usually beat to hell.
I rehearse in my basement, which is awesome. I even deduct some from my taxes for using the space as a business.
That's cool for you, I wouldn't want to rehearse in most storage units I've been in. And a lot around here get noise complaints, so rehearsing for bands is not allowed. But if you got that arrangement that's great, it's just not commonly available. Just like living in the unit, most proprietors do not allow band rehearsals in storage units around here.
Just a suggestion (and take it for what it's worth coming from a guy who's lucky enough to have free rehearsal space in the homes of band members for the two I'm in now)...
The original 4 members carry the cost of rehearsal space for a "grace period" so to speak. You original 4 decide what is an appropriate grace period. See how things go during this time and re-evaluate from there. You won't be any more out than you would have been in the absence of the new members anyway.
My view is further skewed by the fact that in one of the two bands I'm in we just picked up a keyboard player (in lieu of our original rhythm guitar) and it's working out really well. Good keys players are a treasure. Again though, take this for what it's worth and I make no presumptions about your situation. Good luck, OP.
The original 4 members carry the cost of rehearsal space for a "grace period" so to speak. You original 4 decide what is an appropriate grace period. See how things go during this time and re-evaluate from there. You won't be any more out than you would have been in the absence of the new members anyway.
My view is further skewed by the fact that in one of the two bands I'm in we just picked up a keyboard player (in lieu of our original rhythm guitar) and it's working out really well. Good keys players are a treasure. Again though, take this for what it's worth and I make no presumptions about your situation. Good luck, OP.
If all the other fundamentals are there, I would try to keep the guy. All the work you put into him is nothing to sneeze at, and everything seems to be working....The band did ambush him with this fee, and you don't know his financial situation....so I don't blame him. He also sounds like an "employee musician" as I call them -- show up and get paid and go home. No admin, no business, just make a contribution and expect to be paid. Nothing wrong with that, although it can be frustrating if you expect employee musicians to be entrepreneurs, of sorts, as you are.
So, because you guys are on the democratic band model, I would consider the following:
1. See if he'll go for a situation where there is a band ledger where you keep track of expenses for the band and then some of each gig comes off the top to compensate the people taking the risk. Some groups treat the band fund as an additional person that has to be paid so costs get covered. Why not do that?
2. Find alternative ways of getting the rental space costs down, or for free. I built a shed on my property for $2300 years ago and it has more than paid for itself in saved rental space costs. For $400 per month over a year, that is $4000 in expenses for you guys. Nothing to sneeze at.
3. Could you partner with another band that needs rehearsal space? That could cut your costs in half, although you will have to schedule rehearsals and maybe share space for gear, with an agreement about no-touchy.
Anyway, I would try to keep the guy in a way that is acceptable to everyone -- with how hard it is to get and keep good musicians when you have a lot of custom songs.
So, because you guys are on the democratic band model, I would consider the following:
1. See if he'll go for a situation where there is a band ledger where you keep track of expenses for the band and then some of each gig comes off the top to compensate the people taking the risk. Some groups treat the band fund as an additional person that has to be paid so costs get covered. Why not do that?
2. Find alternative ways of getting the rental space costs down, or for free. I built a shed on my property for $2300 years ago and it has more than paid for itself in saved rental space costs. For $400 per month over a year, that is $4000 in expenses for you guys. Nothing to sneeze at.
3. Could you partner with another band that needs rehearsal space? That could cut your costs in half, although you will have to schedule rehearsals and maybe share space for gear, with an agreement about no-touchy.
Anyway, I would try to keep the guy in a way that is acceptable to everyone -- with how hard it is to get and keep good musicians when you have a lot of custom songs.
Stingy bastard. Let him go. However, if you bring in a new guy on any instrument, tell him/her this upfront from now on. No matter how much or little the cost are. Do not ever again take for granted that everyone are in on this, no matter what.
Me myself are in that position that I tell anyone upfront these days, that I am not willing at all to pay to play, including rehearsal space, especially if it's top 40 cover. Or any cover band at all. If it's all originals and I can be involved in the writing (which I am) then it's a different thing, because then you can't get that many gigs, because no one wants originals at a weekend warrior gig anyway. Not even mix them up. I tell people I've had my paying dues years, and I can very well move on to some other band. It's not that important to me anymore - at all - to pay anything to play, because when it comes down to it, I don't need to rehearse covers.
Me myself are in that position that I tell anyone upfront these days, that I am not willing at all to pay to play, including rehearsal space, especially if it's top 40 cover. Or any cover band at all. If it's all originals and I can be involved in the writing (which I am) then it's a different thing, because then you can't get that many gigs, because no one wants originals at a weekend warrior gig anyway. Not even mix them up. I tell people I've had my paying dues years, and I can very well move on to some other band. It's not that important to me anymore - at all - to pay anything to play, because when it comes down to it, I don't need to rehearse covers.
^This. Just like hiking out and do fly fishing for one day with the lads at the stream. For what? I am very wary of this these days. And most bands are a social club, or vanity projects or both. Yet another thing, why I don't really want to play in bands with friends in. I rather play in any new band, and makes friends with them afterwards.
Responding to the side bar: In my personal experience of well over 40 years.............you can find hacks and you can find pro level musicians who can rehearse minimally and gig. Not all pro level musicians are fulltime pros. There's plenty of them in my area.
Back to the subject: Paying high dollars for a storage unit is a touchy subject. I personally am not cool with it. There's got to be other options out there. Is there a band member who lives in a house? Has a garage? Basement? Spare room? Anyone with connections to a school, business or church who can allow a band to rehearse for free or small fee?
Back to the subject: Paying high dollars for a storage unit is a touchy subject. I personally am not cool with it. There's got to be other options out there. Is there a band member who lives in a house? Has a garage? Basement? Spare room? Anyone with connections to a school, business or church who can allow a band to rehearse for free or small fee?
Yeah, I don't get the whole "if you don't gig you're not a band" argument. The Beatles stopped gigging in 1966, then produced some of the greatest music in history. I guess they weren't a real band, though. Steely Dan didn't tour for 20 years. Great social club, though.
If you play together with others in a scheduled, consistent manner, then you're a band in my book. If you gig, you gig. If you don't, you don't.
PS--you should have told the keyboard player up front, "hey, the rest of the band will cover costs for rehearsal space for the next several months, but if this turns out to be a good situation and you stick with the band, we're going to ask you to contribute to the rehearsal space rental."
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