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Keyboard player quits over jam space rent.

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#121
DWBass said:
Responding to the side bar: In my personal experience of well over 40 years.............you can find hacks and you can find pro level musicians who can rehearse minimally and gig. Not all pro level musicians are fulltime pros. There's plenty of them in my area.

Back to the subject: Paying high dollars for a storage unit is a touchy subject. I personally am not cool with it. There's got to be other options out there. Is there a band member who lives in a house? Has a garage? Basement? Spare room? Anyone with connections to a school, business or church who can allow a band to rehearse for free or small fee?
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We all have homes, but unfortunately we all have neighbours in close proximity. We would be getting noise complaints like crazy.
 
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#122
shwabilly said:
We all have homes, but unfortunately we all have neighbors in close proximity. We would be getting noise complaints like crazy.
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Understood. Just an inquiry.......is there no chance for quiet or low volume rehearsals? Maybe soundproof a room/basement. I ask because my band rehearses pretty low volume at his house. Never a complaint from the neighbors on both sides.
 
#123
DWBass said:
Understood. Just an inquiry.......is there no chance for quiet or low volume rehearsals? Maybe soundproof a room/basement. I ask because my band rehearses pretty low volume at his house. Never a complaint from the neighbors on both sides.
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The other issue with this would be space in one of our homes, as well as environment. Aside from the female vocalist, we are all married with kids. None of us really have the space to have a soundproofed jam room.

Also, curious kids would be all up in our business. All of us have atleast one kid under 10 years old, and its a hassle trying to rehearse while kids are trying to make their presence known. Wives are even worse. Lol
 
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#125
shwabilly said:
Hi Folks,

So a quick back story. I'm in a band with some long time friends. For about 4 years, we were playing origionals, but in the last few months, we decided to switch over to top 40 covers.

The band was, a 4 peice, voc/guitar, guitar, bass and drums.

The lead guitarist and I work together, and a new girl started at our work. We found out shes a singer, and was looking for a band. We had her out and it has worked out great. Shes young, (23, and we're 40) very pretty, and an awesome singer and person. Its great to have 2 vocalists, andcthey work really well together.

We decided to add keys. I put a couple of ads out in the local classified sites, and we had a guy come out. He came prepared and ready with the songs we asked him to learn. We are thrilled with what he brings to the band. Hes a bit shy and quiet, but a nice guy.

Here's where the problem starts.

We have a rehearsal space that the origional 4 of us have rented for years. We pay $400 per month and we have 24/7 access to it. The 4 of us have been paying for it with past gig money, and when no gigs are on the books, we just split the cost evenly. No big deal.

With the new members getting up to speed and no gigs on the books, the 4 of us decided to cover the cost for a couple of months until we decided if the new members were sticking around.

Well, this month, we decided to bring up the rent contribution, and the female vocalist had zero problem, but the keyboard player decided he did have a problem, and sent us a group text stating ge didnt want to have to spend money to rehearse and he is out.

Very disappointing, because we've worked hard, gotten about 20 songs together in a short period of time, and soon, would be playing gigs to cover the room cost anyway.

My question to you is, would you write him off? Should we just not charge him, as weve been paying already anyway?

Thanks for reading.
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If he's a good enough asset then assuming he's unable to pay then yes I would keep him and not charge him. Under the understanding that he is a hired gun not a full member of the band.
 
#126
shwabilly said:
The other issue with this would be space in one of our homes, as well as environment. Aside from the female vocalist, we are all married with kids. None of us really have the space to have a soundproofed jam room.

Also, curious kids would be all up in our business. All of us have atleast one kid under 10 years old, and its a hassle trying to rehearse while kids are trying to make their presence known. Wives are even worse. Lol
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I think your wife would be thrilled that you're spending time with a 23 year old Hot chick.
 
#130
Rehearsal space rent was a major issue in a previous band I was in, so I can understand why the keyboard player left.

In that previous band, I was the de facto band manager, and I was transparent about shared rehearsal space expenses with new members. They hesitated briefly, but agreed to contribute. However, most of them were banking on our gig and sales income covering the cost of the space. During the slow months and album recording periods, everyone needed to pitch in some cash, and they either dodged my requests or revealed that they were too broke and/or underemployed at the time to contribute. I ended up fronting their share more often than not, simply because they were talented musicians. However, talent does not make up for a lack of accountability or personal responsibility; I did not recoup my losses until I quit the band for (for these and related reasons).

Moral of the story: be up-front about the costs, but also vet your prospective members about whether they can even afford those costs. If they are reluctant to agree, or refuse to agree, you will probably be dodging a bullet by letting them go. I would not front their share even if they're amazing at their craft.
 
#131
EdO. said:
There seems to me to be a huge disconnect here, and not just this specific topic but on this entire forum in general, between what constitutes well experienced "weekend warriors" and "pros". I've played in bands on and off (more on by a whole bunch) for 40+ years, I know my $hit. I can work up 40 - 50 cover songs pretty quickly depending on common-ness etc. BUT putting that together from basically scratch with 3 - 4 other players even at the same level of ability, experience etc (not that I'm a virtuso or anything, I'm definitely not) is going to take a bit of time IF you really want it to sound like you know what you're doing. A hand full of practices and we're gigging isn't realistic for the majority, ESPECIALLY for us weekend warrior types (and I say that, again, having 40+ years of doing just that). Stated it many times before and I'll say it again - I've seen PLENTY of bands with obviously really good players that come in sounding like they just threw it together with minimal practice just so they can get paid to play somewhere. It's obvious and don't think an audience can't and won't pick up on that.



OF COURSE there are a (small) percentage of players who can do that, throw it together with minimal practice AND sound like pros. BUT the vast majority of those folks ARE pros (defined as - playing pretty much for a living) so they'd BETTER be able to do that. Most of THOSE folks aren't playing in weekend cover bands for $300 - 400 a night. There's the disconnect. Yeah, go out and just hire a pro to fill in. There may be some of that around where I am but if so I'm not connected to it. It's not as easy as some of you pro's would have the rest of us believe, dependent of course on where you're located. Sure, once it's all up and running and has taken on a life of it's own the need to practice AS A GROUP becomes minimized (other than for adding new material, patching kinks etc) but it takes time to get there. Give the OP a break.
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Thanks for posting what you did. I keep thinking I'd make a comment in a similar vein based on my own 40+ years writing and performing music. But then I think of the usual pros here who feel the need to strut their stuff and boast how very few rehearsals "should be" needed and are a waste of time "if you know how to play" - I end up refraining just to avoid all the usual combacks some of those same people feel obliged make.

I'm tempted to say that based on what I've seen, they're either mostly delusional - or speaking about a relatively small number of players who actually can pull it off and not sound like they don't give a toss. Because I've heard that argument many times from band members who don't feel or care to rehearse because they consider themselves ace players. And when show time comes around they do their usual boring and safe canned performance and throw in their same six or seven stock speed licks, and then call it a day. They're also usually the first to line up for their paycheck, and the slowest to help with things like loading in or out.

It's reached the point where anytime I hear the word "pro" my brain automatically translates it into "prima dona" until I'm given reason to think otherwise. I'll take a small team of talented and hardworking amateurs over most of the people I've met that consider themselves "seasoned pros."

But that's me. Others may see it differently and that's fine by me. Just don't audition for anything I'm involved with please? ;)
 
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#133
My .02 is that, as KB players are hard to find, offer him the Hired Gun deal. The band splits gig money by percentage. Those not contributing to the bands costs receive a lower percentage. For example, each member of a 6 piece band, if split evenly, would get about 16.6% of the night's gig money. Offer him 10% and each of the other 5 contributing members split the remaining 90%, or 18% each. The better paying the gigs, the more attractive this becomes for the contributing members.

Thanks
 
#134
dtripoli said:
Here in SoCal $400 is cheap for a monthly lock out.
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I think some people here have gotten more hung up on how much we pay for our rehearsal spot, than over my original question.

Every city and country is different. What we pay may seem a lot to some, but thats whats available to us. I live in a suburb of Toronto. Theres going to be more options in Toronto, but any savings would be offset by travel. We can all get to our spot within 10 minutes tops from our homes.
 
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#135
shwabilly said:
My question to you is, would you write him off?
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No, he should write the band off. The issue of splitting rent should have been brought up on day one, not a couple months after the fact. While I know you have no bad intentions at all with this, he should have been given the knowledge from the start that, if this works out, we'll split it evenly. He could have made his choice then.
 
#138
shwabilly said:
I love how this thread has gone from me asking a question, to people telling me that i dont have a band, I have a hobby.

In the past, we have made more money than we have put in. Switching over to covers has created a transition period for us, where we are not gigging until we are up to speed with learning all these songs.

Simply put. We will be gigging regularily, which the keys player's other band is not doing, and he's not interested in putting forth rent during this transition period. I respect his decision. As far as i know, he may be already paying for rehearsal with his other band, and he has reached his limit.
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Can't help but to be curious...

If you were making enough money to cover your expenses and even sack some away as an original band, why would you switch to covers? Not many original bands make any money, and it sounds like you guys were making lots.
 
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#139
[QUOTE="

If you play together with others in a scheduled, consistent manner, then you're a band in my book. If you gig, you gig. If you don't, you don't.

"[/QUOTE]

Yes, and if you meet your buddies in a bowling alley at a set time, you're a bowling team.. that doesn't make it a business, it makes it a hobby. replace funny shoes and monogrammed bowling balls with basses and drums, it's the same. If you're goal is to play out and generate money (which may not be the goal of every band), then rehearsing more than you gig, if it costs you money, more money than you make, is silly. What business runs that way? We bring in $100 a month, but pay $200 a month to get ready to make that $100. Cover bands are a business. When you charge people money to hear you play, it's a business. When you ask people to pitch in for rent, it's a business. I am not anti rehearsal at all. In fact I teach music in a High School and run rehearsals every day. I think what I am opposed to is inefficient rehearsals... let's drink a few beers and learn songs... rehearsal is not where you learn songs, it's where you refine arrangements, vocals, etc... I should have clarified that I suppose.
 
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