Keyboard player quits over jam space rent.

[obimark]

Hi Folks,

So a quick back story. I'm in a band with some long time friends. For about 4 years, we were playing origionals, but in the last few months, we decided to switch over to top 40 covers.

The band was, a 4 peice, voc/guitar, guitar, bass and drums.

The lead guitarist and I work together, and a new girl started at our work. We found out shes a singer, and was looking for a band. We had her out and it has worked out great. Shes young, (23, and we're 40) very pretty, and an awesome singer and person. Its great to have 2 vocalists, andcthey work really well together.

We decided to add keys. I put a couple of ads out in the local classified sites, and we had a guy come out. He came prepared and ready with the songs we asked him to learn. We are thrilled with what he brings to the band. Hes a bit shy and quiet, but a nice guy.

Here's where the problem starts.

We have a rehearsal space that the origional 4 of us have rented for years. We pay $400 per month and we have 24/7 access to it. The 4 of us have been paying for it with past gig money, and when no gigs are on the books, we just split the cost evenly. No big deal.

With the new members getting up to speed and no gigs on the books, the 4 of us decided to cover the cost for a couple of months until we decided if the new members were sticking around.

Well, this month, we decided to bring up the rent contribution, and the female vocalist had zero problem, but the keyboard player decided he did have a problem, and sent us a group text stating ge didnt want to have to spend money to rehearse and he is out.

Very disappointing, because we've worked hard, gotten about 20 songs together in a short period of time, and soon, would be playing gigs to cover the room cost anyway.

My question to you is, would you write him off? Should we just not charge him, as weve been paying already anyway?

Thanks for reading.

Its just economics for many people. I quit a band over the same reason.

I did the math and even at $40 a month for my share of the rehearsal space I was out of $480 a year,which meant I needed to get $200 gig money a month.

They didn't get paying gigs, so I couldn't see paying that money to play with something that was going nowhere.

For me to join a cover band the rules are simple, I am expecting 2-3 rehearsals up front to get the tunes down (these should be standard well known tunes, NOT "We are going to do something no cover band has EVER done before, the audience will love it"). Then gigs, with a "touch up" or add a couple new songs rehearsals once a month. Seriously, I don't need to practice Mary Janes Last Dance again. Ever. Whoever is "leading" the cover band effort, I expect to arrange a practice area, typically at a members house. Period.

So IMO- if you want this guy and he is worth it, better just pay his share.

 

[shwabilly]

Actually, he indicated earlier that they made more money doing the originals project than they are now.....

The only reason we made more money as an origonals band is we have just started with covers. We want to get atleast 40 songs ready before booking any immediate gigs. We do have some decent paying corporate gigs lined up for the spring and summer, that my guitarist played solo this year, but next year want the full band. Locally, there if plenty of places to play, that will book us. We have all previously played in cover bands, and have past relationships with bar owners and bookers. There is money in this for us.

 

[shwabilly]

My guitarist shared some texts with the keys player lastnight, and he mentioned that the band would discuss the rent situation for him, as it'll be a moot point when we start playing gigs soon. The keys guy said that he didnt want to be the only one not contributing, and wouldnt feel right about it.

I appreciate the sentiment, but honestly, if it happens to be a month till we book a gig, im fine with sharing his portion until then. We are going to pay it anyway.

One thing he did say in his text with my guitarist is that he figured that this was going to come up but was "putting off asking about it".

At the end of the day, it was our responsibility as a band to make this clear from day one, as others here have mentioned. Atleast we've learned a lesson.

 

[Slevage]

Hi Folks,

So a quick back story. I'm in a band with some long time friends. For about 4 years, we were playing origionals, but in the last few months, we decided to switch over to top 40 covers.

The band was, a 4 peice, voc/guitar, guitar, bass and drums.

The lead guitarist and I work together, and a new girl started at our work. We found out shes a singer, and was looking for a band. We had her out and it has worked out great. Shes young, (23, and we're 40) very pretty, and an awesome singer and person. Its great to have 2 vocalists, andcthey work really well together.

We decided to add keys. I put a couple of ads out in the local classified sites, and we had a guy come out. He came prepared and ready with the songs we asked him to learn. We are thrilled with what he brings to the band. Hes a bit shy and quiet, but a nice guy.

Here's where the problem starts.

We have a rehearsal space that the origional 4 of us have rented for years. We pay $400 per month and we have 24/7 access to it. The 4 of us have been paying for it with past gig money, and when no gigs are on the books, we just split the cost evenly. No big deal.

With the new members getting up to speed and no gigs on the books, the 4 of us decided to cover the cost for a couple of months until we decided if the new members were sticking around.



Well, this month, we decided to bring up the rent contribution, and the female vocalist had zero problem, but the keyboard player decided he did have a problem, and sent us a group text stating ge didnt want to have to spend money to rehearse and he is out.

Very disappointing, because we've worked hard, gotten about 20 songs together in a short period of time, and soon, would be playing gigs to cover the room cost anyway.

My question to you is, would you write him off? Should we just not charge him, as weve been paying already anyway?

Thanks for reading.

Write him off---- don't pay for his portion---- get a new person--- and most importantly---
Be upfront about the rent to rehearse situation.
I would be upset (and bail) if I were put in the same situation as your keyboardist.
I would not pay for rehearsal space, even if it meant coming up with a way to practice over head phones, if volume were an issue.
A good in ear system (members responsible for their own in-ear-pieces) could be an added benefit for live performances.

 

[modulusman]

The only reason we made more money as an origonals band is we have just started with covers. We want to get atleast 40 songs ready before booking any immediate gigs. We do have some decent paying corporate gigs lined up for the spring and summer, that my guitarist played solo this year, but next year want the full band. Locally, there if plenty of places to play, that will book us. We have all previously played in cover bands, and have past relationships with bar owners and bookers. There is money in this for us.

At the rate your going you will be ready maybe by March or April. So each band member will have spent about $400.00 before you make a dime.

 

[Nev375]

Do you do the pay to play gigs too?

Don't blame the keyboard player one bit. I've been asked to pay just $20 a month for rent too and walked away.

 

[bearhart74]

I say just let him go.

How can they stop him? other than paying his share. That will breed resentment

 

[JRA]

four of you had been carrying the rent load, by yourselves, for some time. the four of you decided to continue to carry that load for 'a minute' to find out if the new folks were going to work out. the four of you (founding members?) could easily continue to carry that load and make it up (or some of it) by the way you split the gig money: e.g., everyone paid evenly, after expenses, or, whatever variation you like. if the keyboardist wants no part of the expenses: he's a hired gun, but then he also is not privy to the 'financials' and other 'band business'.

although you could have shared the rent situation with him/them at the beginning, you could have, instead: asked him what his pay expectation was (hired gun), negotiated if necessary, and have the band you want, with keys. at gig payout time: everyone gets what they expect. when you have band business meetings/discussions, the keyboardist is not included. you don't need/want his 'vote' to get things done, decide repertoire, yada yada. he would be paid and 'included' in limited fashion, only so far as to move the project forward. if he wants to be a 'full member': he will have obligations. if he is happy to remain a gun: what's the problem?

if i wanted this player in the band: i would apologize for the sticky business stuff. i would tell him: "if we can come to agreement about your gig compensation: we can still do this, and you won't be bothered by the expense issues." after paying the hired gun (just another expense), the money belongs to the 'members only'. it's just simple math (and maybe some negotiation) to work out the figures so that the expenses are covered and everyone gets their share. (some gigs he might get more than 'members', and some gigs he might get less, but the expenses are being paid as you go.)

if he's a prima donna, he's likely to love the arrangement. if he's looking for connections and fellowship, he may just want in, sooner or later. so for me: the short term is all about how much i'm willing to pay him for gigs, say the next few. the longer term might be more about: do we search for a 'member', or, are we good with a hired gun.

but, my real point: i don't have to share my financials with you (in the beginning...or ever!), but you do have to tell me what you expect (compensation) if you want to play in this band with the rest of us: "we'll let you know if we think it can work out....do you have a deadline? do you have any conflicts? can you give us 30 days notice if it isn't working for you?" yada yada!

 

[bearhart74]

sounds like hes so its a moot point. Def think this should have been brought up at audition

 

[shwabilly]

At the rate your going you will be ready maybe by March or April. So each band member will have spent about $400.00 before you make a dime.

The goal has been January. Things started slow, but have been progressing faster. Actually discussed the rate we were working on songs with the keys player a couple of weeks ago, and the amount of songs we were learning a week were what he was comfortable with.

 

[shwabilly]

Do you do the pay to play gigs too?

Don't blame the keyboard player one bit. I've been asked to pay just $20 a month for rent too and walked away.

We do not do pay to play gigs......ever.

 

[SteveHeissner]

A standard list of business issues should be covered at any audition. It's a job interview of sorts. Sometime musicians overlook this early in the game (myself included) and it can come back to bite us later. Maybe that's what happened here.

- How often we gig, how much we earn, and how it gets split?
- Where we gig (for example, is there a limit to how far we'll travel?)
- When we gig (just Saturday nights or any day/night?)
- Expenses and how they get split
- Who books the gigs and do they get extra pay for doing it?
- How frequently we rehearse and where
- Additional overhead - do we pay for sound and lights? If so, who will be our sound and light guys?
- General direction of the band - what kind of songs (covers, originals, genre, etc.)

 

[Wesley R]

I would consider giving new members a few months grace, to the point of after gigging for two months they start to contribute. Recently I looked a bit at getting into a band, and never even asked myself what i would pay for practice space. As an older gent my thoughts would be why pay for space as long as a member has a house that works for practice.

 

[knumbskull]

since when is a definition of band based on whether or not you are profitable?

since Talkbass

 

[shwabilly]

A standard list business issues should be covered at any audition. It's a job interview of sorts. Sometime musicians overlook this early in the game (myself included) and it can come back to bite us later. Maybe that's what happened here.

- How often we gig, how much we earn, and how it gets split?
- Where we gig (for example, is there a limit to how far we'll travel?)
- When we gig (just Saturday nights or any day/night?)
- Expenses and how they get split
- Who books the gigs and do they get extra pay for doing it?
- How frequently we rehearse and where
- Additional overhead - do we pay for sound and lights? If so, who will be our sound and light guys?
- General direction of the band - what kind of songs (covers, originals, genre, etc.)

This is sound advice. We dropped the ball with this one.

The origonal 4 of us have been friends and playing together for so long, that i think our inexperience with adding a new member(s) was on full display.

We are going to continue working on songs, and look for another keys player. If we havent found another one buy the time we are ready to gig, we can see if he's interested as a hired guy.

 

[Spidey2112]

I'm sure there are plenty of musicians out there, willing to pay their fair share to help advance the collective effort of the group... consider it the cost of 'doin' business'... I wish I could golf for free, but that's not going to happen anytime soon...

 

[jnewmark]

A standard list business issues should be covered at any audition. It's a job interview of sorts. Sometime musicians overlook this early in the game (myself included) and it can come back to bite us later. Maybe that's what happened here.

- How often we gig, how much we earn, and how it gets split?
- Where we gig (for example, is there a limit to how far we'll travel?)
- When we gig (just Saturday nights or any day/night?)
- Expenses and how they get split
- Who books the gigs and do they get extra pay for doing it?
- How frequently we rehearse and where
- Additional overhead - do we pay for sound and lights? If so, who will be our sound and light guys?
- General direction of the band - what kind of songs (covers, originals, genre, etc.)

Along with this, I would have asked ( if I was the " new " guy ), Are you guys in this band for the fun of it, or is this a money making project ? Everything kind of flows from that. Sooner or later, if the band is successful, you have to decide which one it is. Expenses start to mount up, your spare time starts to shrink, etc. All this would need to be discussed before I play a note. I've been fortunate in that, in 40 years of playing, I have never had to pay for rehearsal space, and it would definitely be a deal breaker if the band was more of a feel good thing, as opposed to a money making thing. Just my 2 cents.

 

[mellowinman]

Move the band to Minneapolis. I'll play keys.

 

[Roland GR 88]

Wow, reading these responses you'd think the OP has committed some kind of musical crime. Imagine, actually paying for a rehearsal space.....and using it regularly!!
For those of you that live in villages or have a big basement; commercial space isn't cheap in and around Toronto. $400/mo is a GOOD DEAL here.
For those that don't rehearse and measure success in $$$$. Go fish.....some people like to get out with their friends and play. $100.00/month is cheap when you consider you could always go bowling instead. Or try go out to a bar each week and see how far $25.00 gets you.
Trust me, we're all intensely proud that some of you play in cover acts that don't need or want to rehearse. Good for you and nobody holds it against you but the OP asked for a bit of advice over his ex keyboard player not a lecture on how to spend his Friday nights.
I say keep the keys, pay his freight for now and have fun. You're already down to $80.00 each, another $13.00 wouldn't make a difference to me.

 

[mellowinman]

Wow, reading these responses you'd think the OP has committed some kind of musical crime. Imagine, actually paying for a rehearsal space.....and using it regularly!!
For those of you that live in villages or have a big basement; commercial space isn't cheap in and around Toronto. $400/mo is a GOOD DEAL here.
For those that don't rehearse and measure success in $$$$. Go fish.....some people like to get out with their friends and play. $100.00/month is cheap when you consider you could always go bowling instead. Or try go out to a bar each week and see how far $25.00 gets you.
Trust me, we're all intensely proud that some of you play in cover acts that don't need or want to rehearse. Good for you and nobody holds it against you but the OP asked for a bit of advice over his ex keyboard player not a lecture on how to spend his Friday nights.
I say keep the keys, pay his freight for now and have fun. You're already down to $80.00 each, another $13.00 wouldn't make a difference to me. :***:

I like you, kid.
You got SPUNK!