Kick drum through my bass amp?

[MDBass]

Come on now. You know back in the day, we all did crazy things. I had no bass amp when I bought my first bass in the 10th grade. My dad got all kinds of pissed when I ran my bass through the phono inputs of his 'The Fisher 400" receiver...

We've all done dumb things, absolutely.

But even as a teen, I never did something this needlessy complicated: I just plugged the kick mic into the PA like a normal person

 

[MDBass]

Good question. If I was doing the sound I would mix kick and bass in mixer board and take out through a dedicated aux channel. Bass in through DI. Aux out (line level) through a -10dB pad into the bass amp. You could EQ bass and kick separately in mixer, if needed. But I would keep it flat. Probably would be fine.

"Should I buy a piece of equipment and use it exactly as intended, or should I buy a piece of equipment so that I can use a piece of equipment I already own as it isn't intended?"

 

[Big Benner]

Yup, I do it all the time and it's great!

All I'm doing is trying to get a little more "oomph" out of the kick drum and my bass amp can do it - plus I'm able to really hear & feel it which enables me to totally lock into the kick. We had some epic jams that way!

Now, I don't play in a very loud band so take that into context. We're playing top 40 cover songs with mature musicians. Similar setup as you = mixer with 2 powered mains and 2 powered monitors, no subs. Small set up, only the vocals go through the board. Guitars & Keyboards playing out of 1x12" combo amps (not Marshall stacks).

I had great success with my SWR SM900 amp into a 2x10" & 1x15" speaker cabs because I was running this awesome loud bass amp at roughly 30% - 40% of it's limits - there was a ton of headroom. I ran a small Mackie mixer with the kick drum coming through it into the FX's return on the amp and because the SWR SM900 had a FX's Blend knob, I could run as much kick as I wanted without touching the bass tone.

I've done a similar thing were I've run the kick drum mic cable directly into the XLR Input on my MarkBass CMD 102P combo amp (with additional 2x10" extension speaker cab) with my bass into the 1/4" input, but I had less control doing it that way. I set everything flat (like I always do), set the level for the Kick Drum and then brought in my bass signal & level using the level knob on my BOSS BC-1X Bass Compressor pedal.

I used it this way at a recent indoor wedding gig - in the attached picture you'll see the bass amp behind me (& beside the drummer who could feel the extra "oomph"). We "locked in" and got the dance floor moving.

Why not give it a try, perhaps in the next rehearsal.

Cheers,

Benner

 

[smogg]

Nope, nada, no way in Hell! And I have to chuckle at the thought of a "sound guy" with such a simple PA rig.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ THIS! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[mellowinman]

 

[gitfiddl]

This is so funny to me that I can't stop typing.

The "sound guy" has literally taken the simplest problem ("we need a sub for the kick so it has more bottom end in the PA") and come up with the most complicated, least functional solution possible ("we need a separate unpowered mixer to sum the kick and bass signals together before sending them to a standalone amp incabaple of reproducing sub lows at high volume and destroying the drivers with the huge transients and 60Hz peak of the kick").

Much of the perceived "punch" of a kick drum is well within the range of a good bass rig, and for that matter, most better "bar band PA systems", even without a sub. The key is knowing what you are doing. Obviously, this sound guy doesn't.

 

[MDBass]

Much of the perceived "punch" of a kick drum is well within the range of a good bass rig, and for that matter, most better "bar band PA systems", even without a sub. The key is knowing what you are doing. Obviously, this sound guy doesn't.

That "punch" is usually around 60Hz: it varies by kick, and by mic, but that's a solid median.

Unless you're running a steep HPF to remove all of the sub frequencies below that, you're likely going to run into over-excursion issues pretty quickly...especially at "outdoor gig" volumes.

 

[SLO Surfer]

If a sound guy suggested this I would suggest for him to find the door and then run FOH sound myself.

Seriously.

I wouldn’t trust this guy to run even just the vocals through a PA and get it right if this thought popped up in his little mind.

 

[QweziRider]

any thoughts?

Yeah. Tell the sound guy to get his own bass amp and abuse it, tell us how it works out. Not a chance I'd do it.

 

[gitfiddl]

That "punch" is usually around 60Hz: it varies by kick, and by mic, but that's a solid median.

Unless you're running a steep HPF to remove all of the sub frequencies below that, you're likely going to run into over-excursion issues pretty quickly...especially at "outdoor gig" volumes.

Like I said, if you know what you're doing. I wonder if the mic he plans to use will have the bottom-end response anyway...

 

[MDBass]

Like I said, if you know what you're doing. I wonder if the mic he plans to use will have the bottom-end response anyway...

Might as well use a 58 and boost 500Hz...it'll probably be fine

 

[TheReceder]

Has anyone else said "HELL NO"

 

[Altitude]

Just to play devil’s advocate -

If this approach is certain to damage a bass amp, why would it not also damage the FOH to run both bass and kick drum through that?

 

[JW56789]

There is always a jump between a 'vocals only' reinforcement system and a 'entire band' system, and that does NOT have an intermediate step where you mic the kick thru the bass amp. Never has, never will. Either this guy needs to wrap his head around that and do the upgrades (and yes, you go from a 'trunk of a big car' size to a 'van-sized' system, just the way it is), or you're gonna need a different guy.

 

[aprod]

Do not let that "sound guy" touch anything. That is one of the stupidest suggestions I have ever heard. If the PA speakers are of a good quality they should handle the bdrum just fine. I don't have a sub and we have been doing that for years without a problem. Speakers are Mackie 450s.

 

[gitfiddl]

Just to play devil’s advocate -

If this approach is certain to damage a bass amp, why would it not also damage the FOH to run both bass and kick drum through that? Which would seem normal.

Agreed. I'm not in the group saying it would damage the bass amp. Bass amps handle distortion pedals, octave pedals, synth pedals, etc, which produce all sorts of transients and survive.

My issue is that someone professing to be a "sound guy" thinks this is a better solution than just running enough kick through the mains to be heard.

 

[MDBass]

Just to play devil’s advocate -

If this approach is certain to damage a bass amp, why would it not also damage the FOH to run both bass and kick drum through that?

Nothing "certain" about it...but subs are designed to handle 40Hz transient spikes at loud volumes and most bass cabs are not.

That's why newer players who don't yet have a handle on EQ blow their drivers.

If the goal is "make the kick drum louder for outdoor gigs", the best answer is most certainly not "use the bass amp"

 

[ballynally]

That "punch" is usually around 60Hz: it varies by kick, and by mic, but that's a solid median.

Unless you're running a steep HPF to remove all of the sub frequencies below that, you're likely going to run into over-excursion issues pretty quickly...especially at "outdoor gig" volumes.

well, there isnt a standard for kick drums.my take on it is that a kick doesnt need anything under 80hz.in fact, i believe it should stay out of the bass' way as much as possible.It's the kick you want/hear, coupled with low of the bass for the best combination.That way you CAN use a bass cab if need be.i did it once where i used my 2x10s as monitor with the lows+kick going to coupled 15+12" cabinets.if you want to feel the kick as well you need subs but then the overall volume will have to be louder.
It needed it as the PA was small and the 2 EVs were coupled to 4 Ohm one channel and low bass/kick to the other.works very well as long as you don't go overboard and keep an ear to the overall balance.

 

[MDBass]

well, there isnt a standard for kick drums.my take on it is that a kick doesnt need anything under 80hz.in fact, i believe it should stay out of the bass' way as much as possible.It's the kick you want/hear, coupled with low of the bass for the best combination.That way you CAN use a bass cab if need be.i did it once where i used my 2x10s as monitor with the lows+kick going to coupled 15+12" cabinets.
It needed it as the PA was small and the 2 EVs were coupled to 4 Ohm one channel and low bass/kick to the other.works very well as long as you don't go overboard and keep an ear to the overall balance.

If you use an HPF on the kick at 100Hz, which will result in very little information from 80Hz and below, it'll certainly be audible but will sound pretty thin...and in that case you probably just use your sub-less PA anyway

 

[MDBass]

Do not let that "sound guy" touch anything. That is one of the stupidest suggestions I have ever heard. If the PA speakers are of a good quality they should handle the bdrum just fine. I don't have a sub and we have been doing that for years without a problem. Speakers are Mackie 450s.

This.

Subs are for when you need to feel the kick: it should still be perfectly audible through the mains without them.