Kick drum through my bass amp?

[Tim Skaggs]

I'd say you should have the drummer buy a nice power amp, and at least an eight-channel mixer, with a couple subs and a couple full range cabinets. The drummer can set that up each time you guys play, so he can put up to seven mics on his drum set, & you can play through channel 8....

 

[Rip Van Dan]

I'm with HELL NO crowd too! Your bass amp is for your bass, not for his drum. Especially since the sounds that he will be playing will suck huge amounts of power out of your amp and will in all likelihood push your bass speakers to their extreme limits trying to reproduce a sharp attack on those sub-woofer frequencies.

 

[tfer]

I’d agree to this as soon as the guitarist allows vocals through his Marshall cab...

 

[Brad Johnson]

It's a stupid idea that won't work worth a crap, and is highly likely to damage most bass cabs...

This seems to be the general consensus and I'm not sure why. A kick drum is supposed to be harder on a cab than an electric bass? Ever seen Louis Johnson?


If a kick will damage a bass cab under normal use it's probably a fairly low capacity cab. If I can drown out a drumset with my low end dynamics I could probably supply them for the drums too. Is the assumption that the kick will be turned up too loud or what?

I've done it before with no damage. But since I'm not "in a band" and only supply sound reinforcement for myself I wouldn't do it as a normal thing, just like I wouldn't have keys run through my rig. Only in a pinch.

 

[mesaplayer83]

This seems to be the general consensus and I'm not sure why. A kick drum is supposed to be harder on a cab than an electric bass? Ever seen Louis Johnson?


If a kick will damage a bass cab under normal use it's probably a fairly low capacity cab. If I can drown out a drumset with my low end dynamics I could probably supply them for the drums too. Is the assumption that the kick will be turned up too loud or what?

I've done it before with no damage. But since I'm not "in a band" and only supply sound reinforcement for myself I wouldn't do it as a normal thing, just like I wouldn't have keys run through my rig. Only in a pinch.

I've run sound enough times to realize the dynamics involved in a typical kick drum - there's a reason why compression is almost always involved with the kick into a PA, and in the OP's circumstance, I doubt that would be possible... I would never allow it into my bass rig, but if others want to, that's their business - personally, I don't see myself being involved in a project that would even consider such an amateurish move, but that's just me...

 

[Brad Johnson]

I'm with HELL NO crowd too! Your bass amp is for your bass, not for his drum. Especially since the sounds that he will be playing will suck huge amounts of power out of your amp and will in all likelihood push your bass speakers to their extreme limits trying to reproduce a sharp attack on those sub-woofer frequencies.

Most bass rigs don't reproduce sub-woofer frequencies that will damage a driver. They'll only go as low as they go. As far as say anything around 45 hz and up, kick drum shouldn't be any more of an issue than an agresssive bass guitar or synth, both of which can work fine on an adequate rig. As far as sucking huge amounts of power, 500w heads are basic live performance heads, plenty of power unless you're really, really cranking it. Is the assumption that the simple act of adding kick for fill will mean it'll take over the rig? Sure seems like it from a lot of these posts.

By the same token, powered subwoofers have never been easier to find or more affordable. I bought a brand new powered 12 with built-in crossover for under $200 that would probably work fine in this situation.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I've run sound enough times to realize the dynamics involved in a typical kick drum - there's a reason why compression is almost always involved with the kick into a PA, and in the OP's circumstance, I doubt that would be possible... I would never allow it into my bass rig, but if others want to, that's their business - personally, I don't see myself being involved in a project that would even consider such an amateurish move, but that's just me...

Great point. Which brings up the question... how is the kick getting into the rig? Simply plugging in a mic? Line out from a mixer? EQ pedal?


I've run rigs enough to know that my dynamics can exceed a bass drum. Easily. And things can never get any louder than you let them. ijs.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I'd say you should have the drummer buy a nice power amp, and at least an eight-channel mixer, with a couple subs and a couple full range cabinets. The drummer can set that up each time you guys play so he put up to seven mics on his drum set, & you can play through channel 8....

While I've always said that if I played drums I'd have my own mics and mixer (I like having control over my tone and output), in this case a powered sub is probably all that's needed. Could easily be remedied with a couple of hundred dollars or less. Even a small sub will be a noticeable change over a physical kick alone... and less effort for the drummer.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Yup, I do it all the time and it's great!

All I'm doing is trying to get a little more "oomph" out of the kick drum and my bass amp can do it - plus I'm able to really hear & feel it which enables me to totally lock into the kick. We had some epic jams that way!

Now, I don't play in a very loud band so take that into context. We're playing top 40 cover songs with mature musicians. Similar setup as you = mixer with 2 powered mains and 2 powered monitors, no subs. Small set up, only the vocals go through the board. Guitars & Keyboards playing out of 1x12" combo amps (not Marshall stacks).

I had great success with my SWR SM900 amp into a 2x10" & 1x15" speaker cabs because I was running this awesome loud bass amp at roughly 30% - 40% of it's limits - there was a ton of headroom. I ran a small Mackie mixer with the kick drum coming through it into the FX's return on the amp and because the SWR SM900 had a FX's Blend knob, I could run as much kick as I wanted without touching the bass tone.

I've done a similar thing were I've run the kick drum mic cable directly into the XLR Input on my MarkBass CMD 102P combo amp (with additional 2x10" extension speaker cab) with my bass into the 1/4" input, but I had less control doing it that way. I set everything flat (like I always do), set the level for the Kick Drum and then brought in my bass signal & level using the level knob on my BOSS BC-1X Bass Compressor pedal.

I used it this way at a recent indoor wedding gig - in the attached picture you'll see the bass amp behind me (& beside the drummer who could feel the extra "oomph"). We "locked in" and got the dance floor moving.

Why not give it a try, perhaps in the next rehearsal.

Cheers,

Benner

Finally.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Having some kick in your monitor (which is how your amp is functioning in the above case) is totally normal and quite functional.

Using your bass amp as a powered PA sub is not

 

[Brad Johnson]

Every FOH system where you can feel the bass sure does.

This is a thread about using a bass amp instead of a PA sub at the suggestion of the "sound guy".

Not true. Obviously.

This isn't a sub.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Buy or rent a powered sub. Or hire a sound company if the gig is important.

So many reasons why this won't work for so many people. Do "gigs" pay enough to pay for a sound company? Some do... some don't. Same goes for renting.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Substitute "I ran a kick through my rig" for the words in this clips. Reminds me of most of the reactions here.


www.youtube.com/watch?v=hs5j8uUR2nc

 

[xnewyorka]

Oh hell no! When we added a pair of sub's to pa I was so happy! But the drummer added office casters to them! It defeated any floor coupling!so we stack upside down

The proper solution for that is called a Furniture Dolly.
I use this one, it is excellent:
Milwaukee 1,000 lb. Capacity Furniture Dolly-33700 - The Home Depot

 

[Drgonzonm]

If you own the amp, no, if the band owns the amp, need a concesious of band members

My bass, my amp is my equipment, if I blow up my equipment, it's my fault.
Imo, the sound guy sounds like he's protecting his equipment.
To me it's bad practice to loan out equipment. If it's an emergency probably, but not routine.
95 % of experiments fail, 'nuff said

 

[mesaplayer83]

Finally.

I would have to question the knowledge and experience of anyone who said:

"Yup, I do it all the time and it's great!"

... but that's just me... Talkbass is notorious for kids and bedroom/basement players pretending to know what they're talking about, lol...

 

[OnederTone]

absolutely not. time to pony up for a better PA with a sub or two

Time to pony up for a better sound man as well

 

[JKB1957]

NFW!

 

[Brad Johnson]

I would have to question the knowledge and experience of anyone who said:

"Yup, I do it all the time and it's great!"

... but that's just me... Talkbass is notorious for kids and bedroom/basement players pretending to know what they're talking about, lol...

And I have to question folks who act as if there is one gig, one situation, one result, etc. Some people can't seem to grasp that their gig is not universal. Based on very little detail many are proclaiming that stuff will blow up, which frankly is pretty ridiculous. Because volume controls and everyone doesn't have a crappy rig.

I can easily see it working for folks with gig maturity; everything doesn't have to go to eleven. And finding it hard to believe that others may exercise this maturity seems to be pretty commonplace here.

Talkbass is notorious for kids and bedroom/basement players pretending to know what they're talking about. Particularly live sound. They only believe in things proven with a lab coat. Screw ears and actually understanding audio and gear. So which of the naysayers has actually tried this or has seen others try it before they just assumed their rig would be forced to produce 30hz at 150dB and automatically blow stuff up real good? Better yet, how many apparently have no clue of the dynamic range of the instrument they play?


Seems like a bunch. I mean, can a bass be turned up louder than loud drums in FOH? Can it go lower frequency-wise than a kick drum? If so, wouldn't that make the bass more dangerous?

 

[tfer]

And I have to question folks who act as if there is one gig, one situation, one result, etc. Some people can't seem to grasp that their gig is not universal. Based on very little detail many are proclaiming that stuff will blow up, which frankly is pretty ridiculous. Because volume controls and everyone doesn't have a crappy rig.

I can easily see it working for folks with gig maturity; everything doesn't have to go to eleven. And finding it hard to believe that others may exercise this maturity seems to be pretty commonplace here.

Talkbass is notorious for kids and bedroom/basement players pretending to know what they're talking about. Particularly live sound. They only believe in things proven with a lab coat. Screw ears and actually understanding audio and gear. So which of the naysayers has actually tried this or has seen others try it before they just assumed their rig would be forced to produce 30hz at 150dB and automatically blow stuff up real good? Better yet, how many apparently have no clue of the dynamic range of the instrument they play?


Seems like a bunch. I mean, can a bass be turned up louder than loud drums in FOH? Can it go lower frequency-wise than a kick drum? If so, wouldn't that make the bass more dangerous?

I don’t disagree with much here.

I’ve never tried this, but I’d also never volunteer to. I’m not worried about the frequency that the kick has, but the transient attack.

Even the most aggressive slapper doesn’t hit as hard as a kick drum.

Assuming 80 bars of 4/4 time per song and the kick on one and three, that’s 160 solid thwacks per song. To keep the math easy, let’s say 10 songs per set. That’s now 1600.

Three sets is 4800 thwacks.

There’s no way I’d risk that. Not a chance.