Anyone get one of these yet? Also, I see the guitar necks have been drilled and have inserts but it seems the bass don’t? From a review on the one I see the user had to do it themselves. If I remember the initial page where everyone signed up mentioned them having threaded inserts. Not too keen on the idea of waiting for a now 1k neck and then having to hope either I or a tech don’t mess it up. Only thing holding me back right now.
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Klos Basses-Carbon necks
- Thread starter Clark Westfield
- Start date
Still waiting for mine after 18 months. If I ever see them I’ll post a pic. Haven’t head a peep since the August email that they were getting close (or Klos?)
That seems odd. I asked them directly if they would have inserts and they said yes, but nothing about being installed by the end user. Though, if I recall correctly Status did/does not use them on their necks and it isn't a problem. Maybe they found that to be the same and the inserts have now become optional? Inserts can be easy to mess up if the pilot hole isn't drilled perfectly straight since machine screws are unforgiving to thread correctly (or at all) if the hole is pitched at an angle.
They're starting to get out there and I've seen at least two on social media so far. Which model did you order? I got an email with an invoice to pay the remaining 50% and to check to make sure everything was right. In the process I contacted them to add the black tuners since that was not an option at the time. The next email is supposed to be with tracking information, but nothing yet.
I was a cnc machinist for 15 years before I started my career in quality. Even with that experience I really don’t want to do the inserts myself. As I admitted in my initial comment I’m going based on a review from the Klos website. I did however notice that the Fender guitar neck pictures show the inserts installed but the bass do not, which is what further triggered my alarm. I’m just not interested in doing it myself or paying extra to have someone do it. The margin for error should be removed when spending that kind of money. I will reiterate I have no clue if this is true but I’ll include a screen shot of the review that I’m referencing. I’d really just like some clarity.
To say this has me a little worried/disappointed is an understatement. Thanks for the info!
I don’t mean to cause alarm or anything, I’d really like to know as I want to buy one
I'm waiting for mine to be delivered and even I'd still like to know!
For as great as the KLOS guys are, there hasn't been quite enough information publicly visible through this whole process. I had no expectation that I might have to finish this thing off myself beyond bolting it to the body and doing a setup. Drilling and tapping an insert into CF is not high on my want to do list, as well as the possibility of a loose tolerance. I've dealt with a wood neck like that before and it did not end well.I do not want to install inserts in CF. I don’t remember that being part of the deal. That would be very disappointing.
The good news is that there are no inserts. It's a drill and tap into the CF. Maybe that's also bad news? Hard to say.
I'm interested to see how that fits. The 20 fret 4 string model I received is very loose in the neck pocket. The review posted above is no joke that there's over 1mm of play. There's basically no contact with the edges of the pocket and no friction to help hold it in place. The screws are going to be doing all the work to keep it aligned, and that's the total opposite of any neck I've worked with where the neck and pocket are fairly tight together and the screws just hold it to the body. I'm going to have to be real delicate and precise how I clamp this thing down to mark holes because it might as well not be Fender spec'd if we're going to be totally honest about it. The heel shape isn't exact either and the corners are a different radius. There may have been a licensing issue with that, who knows. It's the same on either a Warmoth or a Fender MIM body.
Without in any way bashing the people at KLOS, I feel a little mislead on what they meant by having the neck installed by them. Nothing in any of my conversations, and nothing in the product description said or says anything about drilling and tapping holes. Inserts were also mentioned, and now there aren't any (probably for the best). I assumed wrong that since they were working with a well known, well diagramed, neck pocket that the neck would arrive with 4 holes in the spots they should be. Look, I get it, they want to make sure it is absolutely right for the bass it's going to live on, but my argument is again that we were not informed. Otherwise, the neck itself is absolutely beaufiful. Now it's whether I can get it installed properly or turn it into a $500+ paperweight because no returns on anything that's been drilled.
I’m sorry this parallels the review I saw on their site. I may have to hang back before going this route which truly saddens me. Current price on the site is $899. If they can figure out QC I’ll join the team but I’ll wait. I spent a long time as a cnc machinist, which segued into quality assurance, obtained my ASQ and have moved into corporate quality. I wonder if the processes for these necks stray from those of their other carbon fiber offerings and if so were they subject to PPAP process? Did they qualify a 1st article? Has a competency study been done? How are they tracking non conformance’s and at what rate or sample size are SPC’s being taken and is there a FMEA being conducted. Are critical features called out and 100% inspected?
I want to be clear that in no way am I discouraging anyone from buying a neck. You just need to know the reality of it and what you're getting into. As of this very second they aren't being forthcoming on the website about what you're going to need to do. I also had to look up some of those accronymns
This is incorrect. In actuality you get -
- 1 carbon fiber neck
- KLOS Guitar machine heads (already installed)
- 4 screws
- 1 drill bit
- 1 tap
- Handheld bit holder with a Philips head bit
And everything was bouncing around inside my box upon receipt because the tiny ziplock bag they shoved it all in broke open. When I picked up the box and heard the rattling around of metal parts I proceeded to roll my eyes. It wasn't a good start. The neck was thankfully wrapped extremely well or else it likely would have been damaged.
That tells me nothing about what it actually entails. Installing a neck to me means bolting it on and doing a setup, which is a very familiar process and why I declined this option in the first place. The packaging list above gives the perception that's all that will be needed to be done. The email conversations I had never indicated anything of the sort either. I'm not angry, but I am a bit frustrated. Aligning the neck is critical (especially with the very loose tolerance). Drilling the holes exactly straight is critical. Am I being unreasonable to think that this needs to be HEAVILY emphasized? I have every tool available to do this, but now it's turned into a process I wasn't expecting.
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Warmoth will ship you a fender neck with perfectly drilled holes. They fit great. I was not expecting to have to do that part on CF.
But I haven’t heard a peep lately so I won’t know for a while.
The order page shows 3 month wait Maybe I should order a new one and get it first
But I haven’t heard a peep lately so I won’t know for a while.
The order page shows 3 month wait Maybe I should order a new one and get it first
You’re not being unreasonable, the fitment is unacceptable. I did however go check out the way back machine and archived back to when they launched the pre order and there is no reference to inserts. I’m willing to admit being misinformed, but where did multiple of us come to that conclusion? I feel like information has moved around and changed on their page a few times over the last year and a half. I just wanted to take initiative to go back and look and confirm because honestly now I don’t know where any of that insert talk came from. If I’m mistaken or wrong I try to admit it. I don’t wanna tarnish somebody for something that’s not particularly their fault. Communication could’ve been better and tighter tolerance could be held, which shouldn’t be downplayed. My apologies to Klos for whatever information I wrongly understood and conveyed.I want to be clear that in no way am I discouraging anyone from buying a neck. You just need to know the reality of it and what you're getting into. As of this very second they aren't being forthcoming on the website about what you're going to need to do. I also had to look up some of those accronymns
View attachment 7098896
This is incorrect. In actuality you get -
- 1 carbon fiber neck
- KLOS Guitar machine heads (already installed)
- 4 screws
- 1 drill bit
- 1 tap
- Handheld bit holder with a Philips head bit
And everything was bouncing around inside my box upon receipt because the tiny ziplock bag they shoved it all in broke open. When I picked up the box and heard the rattling around of metal parts I proceeded to roll my eyes. It wasn't a good start. The neck was thankfully wrapped extremely well or else it likely would have been damaged.
View attachment 7098898
That tells me nothing about what it actually entails. Installing a neck to me means bolting it on and doing a setup, which is a very familiar process and why I declined this option in the first place. The pacakaging list above gives the perception that's all that will be needed to be done. The email converations I had never indicated anything of the sort either. I'm not angry, but I am a bit frustrateed. Aligning the neck is critical (especially with the very loose tolerance). Drilling the holes exactly straight is critical. Am I being unreasonable to think that this needs to be HEAVILY emphasized? I have every tool available to do this, but now it's turned into a process I wasn't expecting.
Part of the inserts talk came from me because I have an email conversation from them stating they would be threaded inserts. Someone also I think mentioned above that the guitar necks may have them.
Per online video, the screws end up in an aluminum section beneath the carbon. If stripped, upsizing shouldn’t be a problem; just re-tap and use larger screws with more bite surface. Tape pocket to align and spray with high build clear and let cure if you want that tight fit. When fitting necks, I often sand at the heel and drill holes while the neck is clamped at center while held to the body under string tension of the outer strings.
I feel confident about fitment. Ime fender bodies all fit necks with varying degrees of tightness.
Looking forward.
I feel confident about fitment. Ime fender bodies all fit necks with varying degrees of tightness.
Looking forward.
Hmmm... I think that the work required to install the neck is more difficult than most would be accustomed to, but Klos is somewhat downplaying the difficulty, perhaps to avoid losing orders for the necks. The recommended way to install the neck - ship them the body, means you should get it back with everything done properly.
While drilling and tapping holes isn't a particularly difficult exercise, I think the risk is that a lot of people don't really know how to do that work properly and are going to disaster DIY it. They may get the neck onto the body but there could be alignment issues.
On the neck fit issue, to be fair to Klos, this could have to do with the overall variability of neck pocket dimensions from fender and the potential fitment of necks into joints that potentially have finish in them, etc. Making the neck slightly undersized isn't going to eliminate issues such as finish damage from the pocket being too tight or with finish overhang of the neck pocket.
I manufacture parts, both CF and metal and it's fabricated largely on CNC. If I'm doing custom work for someone that requires fitting parts together, it's often not the ideal way to do it if I can't get a hold of a part I'm machining someithing to interface with. You might have the product specs, but if the component is wood or a part that has been finished with paint, the quote specs may not be precise enough to get a perfect fit.
While drilling and tapping holes isn't a particularly difficult exercise, I think the risk is that a lot of people don't really know how to do that work properly and are going to disaster DIY it. They may get the neck onto the body but there could be alignment issues.
On the neck fit issue, to be fair to Klos, this could have to do with the overall variability of neck pocket dimensions from fender and the potential fitment of necks into joints that potentially have finish in them, etc. Making the neck slightly undersized isn't going to eliminate issues such as finish damage from the pocket being too tight or with finish overhang of the neck pocket.
I manufacture parts, both CF and metal and it's fabricated largely on CNC. If I'm doing custom work for someone that requires fitting parts together, it's often not the ideal way to do it if I can't get a hold of a part I'm machining someithing to interface with. You might have the product specs, but if the component is wood or a part that has been finished with paint, the quote specs may not be precise enough to get a perfect fit.
I’ve rolled quite a few warmoth necks and swapped out Squier, Fender and the like and never have seen .040 or more off in a heel or pocket. I too was a machinist for a long time and only tolerances I’ve ever seen to approach that were on raw material for a milling process. I could totally do the work needed to counter sink flush inserts but again at the price point, I don’t want to be drilling holes at all. The difference is to do it properly you’d be utilizing level work holding that isn’t rigged (yes I’ve fudge things to work myself). Current price is almost $900 and if you ship it to them it hits 1k. There should be no margin for error. There were tons of companies making Fender spec heels out of aluminum and they aren’t seeing those fitment issues. Warmoth has minimal… if it were off by .040 I’d be sending it back. Fitment tolerating in our fields is simple as both require a tolerance and are built in. ODs at low and ID’s approaching high. Keep it in the upper and lower 25% of tolerance and ride insert life instead of chasing nominal. You’ll be golden unless there is a taper, tool walk, excessive chatter, but then you adjust accordingly or evaluate tooling. Now paint being a factor I completely understand, most paint specs are between 2 and 8 mm for industrial purposes (IME). Removing or sanding paint is way different than a neck being 1mm shy on overall dimensions.
I guess I’m just used to working tight tolerance on $30k parts so these types of variability are not acceptable. ITAR and AS9100-2016 standards are no joke.
I want this to get figured out because I have bodies so want to outfit with these necks. I want them to prosper. Ever since I started playing a Modulus I’ve wanted to convert over Fenders. Their Fender guitar necks get rave reviews, their CF acoustic instruments also glowing. They get this figured out and if this is just new product pains….I’m ready to drop 3k on necks…
I guess I’ve never gotten a Warmoth that I couldn’t press in and pick up the bass or guitar without the bolts in. 1mm or .0394 is visible.
I just would hate to “brick” a $900 neck because I wasn’t set up for success.
I really want to buy these, I’ve been excited but I’ve hung back for this very reason l.
As noted in another post, there is indeed a plate of aluminum under the layers of CF which you will tap in to which takes the place of inserts and allows for some leeway should something not go right the first time.
Here's what we're working with, and I just happened to have this bass body neck-less at the moment and it isn't the one it will eventually live on. It's a Fender Player Plus Active P, for reference. It's the same thing on a Warmoth body and is more noticeable without the pickguard.
