Klos: comparable to Modulus?

[MNAirHead]

I currently own botique era composite acoustics, bquad, modulus, emerald bass, bogart... have owned schaack and a long list of others.

the Klos was ok... ok in the sense that my USA pbass is ok.... my pbass is not a high end detailed botique copy of a usa pbass.

I really think it comes to balancing budget to use.... i'm silly enough to over play botiques on $100 gigs.... yes i"m that dumb.

 

[Hapa]

I have only played a handful of Modulus Basses that had the truss rods in them. I grew up in Edina, MN and they were at my local store where I took saxophone lessons and the guy I took bass lessons always talked about them. Every time I was in the SF Bay area I would stop by this shop called Gelb Music that had a bassist as one of its owners and always had a very nice bass gear selection. I never had the money then to take one home. I always played them through Accugroove, Thunderfunk or Eden gear. I graduated music college in 06 with a Yamaha BB-N5A, went the Ken smith route and had a F-Bass BN5 before I ended up learning how to build and working for Nordstrand. I have and for 15 years gigged with my custom Nordy vJ5 that I couldn't have afforded unless I built it... and gladly paid the guy that does setups there to do final assembly. I gig with a Lakland Skyline 55-01 with Nordstrand Big Blades and pre.

I just bought the red KLOS Apollo V from Okayest Bassist on youtube/reverb for a great price. I was on the fence with the same AlphaSyndicate guy that has been selling like a half dozen 20 year old G Gould basses in California off reverb but found the KLOS and am happy with my purchase. I am still curious about the G.Gould basses for the same reason the OP is asking. Similar price point but paying for experience (G Gould/Modulus) vs a newer brand with light weight options but less luthier and more of a product (being the KLOS).
The KLOS Apollo V smashes... Seriously impressed. I believe that it was a b- stock with the slightest of blemishes on the seam of carbon fiber to fb... but I had to look for it. It is passive which is the first time since I bought a squier rock box starter kit more than 20 years ago since I have purchased a passive. That said I am blown away at the clarity and headroom of the pickups. It is a Plek'd neck (like the G.Gould basses) with stainless frets that can't be older than 18 months old so as straight as can be... I decided to put Nickel Lo-riders on first, see how I like Sun-Beams next then, Hi-beams, ss lo- riders. All in all I think KLOS is a well thought out brand, and the Apollo series reflects that. The neck feel is great and fingerboard is rolled, making it virtually transparent to my hands in the first day. The sound of carbon fiber/ phenolic fretboards is there but just to say it's extremely even. Thought went into the pu's or output capacitor of the circuit to properly create a very musical top end. Even "just too long fingernail" sound and string noise from imperfect muting wasn't bad or magnified like Wenge can do.
I am a fan of the less than 9 LBS part of it. That said the KLOS tops are thin veneers and it is a painted not actually bound body... Vs all g. gould and modulus' that had a top were real, that said I can remember that every Q5 was a beefy fellow. I recall a used one at GC in SoCal with a Cocobolo top and No truss rod that was almost 12 lbs. Every Modulus had EMG's and a preamp so the inherent EMG sound and signal loading/ buffering was ever present. I think that with pickup and preamp choices swapped it would have a very similar tone to other composite neck/fingerboard companies. I have a magnetic flux film so I can add that the KLOS pickups are dual coil with a bar in the middle. I have not opened it up yet. I used the KLOS in rehearsal and it translated very well. Low end clarity like no other with crazy sustain.
The only thing that I found out in deep research that I have yet to confirm is that the Carbon fiber necks are made in China and sent to Utah as a part and everything is assembled and setup there. I totally get it, I am very happy to support a new brand but if I knew that before I would have probably waited for that guy on reverb to relist a G gould one, again. Gonna do a NBD post... apologies for chronicle.

 

[Bipslapper]

I've owned a few Modulus basses, Quantum 5's (still have my main Q5) and a 4 string Jazz. I am waiting on a Klos Apollo 5 string I ordered in January, any week now, and will post my impressions. I also own a Gould 5 string which I love and that one will be hard to beat.

 

[Saetia]

I’d really like to try a “new” Klos as I feel the one I played at Music Go Round didn’t give Klos a fair shake. It was used, and I can’t contribute the issues to the company.

The bass was very light and I will say that it was quite punchy.

 

[P. Aaron]

Good looking basses but, ya gotta try 'em out too.

 

[Hapa]

I've owned a few Modulus basses, Quantum 5's (still have my main Q5) and a 4 string Jazz. I am waiting on a Klos Apollo 5 string I ordered in January, any week now, and will post my impressions. I also own a Gould 5 string which I love and that one will be hard to beat.

I would be interested to hear how it compares to the G Gould. The only thing that held me back was the slightly tight string spacing.

 

[Hapa]

Well, After a month with the KLOS and a second stringing I have some concerns to share. I have noticed some significant dead spots at the A's: of 14th G, 12th of A and 7th fret of D. Made more apparent when the bass slightly detuned after fresh strings... at about -20 cents (circumstantial but how I was made aware of the issue). I played the bass the day after a string up and rehearsal and the G happened to be -20 cents flat and the 14th fret a dies in seconds. 7th fret loses the fundamental and the first harmonic rings out same but at a different rate as 12th fret A. Looking carefully and after a rehearsal the nut needs some work in conjunction with final truss rod placement for proper setup, I don't think the neck had enough relief set in it when it was plek'd. It still plays well so I am not saying that far off but my left hand was barking at me for fatigue and each string could come down .015-.009 at the 1st fret. I have been in contact with KLOS and I am waiting to hear back after making a few videos A Vs B Lakland Skyline. They came out this year with a few models from late last year so I really hope they take care of the neck.

 

[groooooove]

Well, After a month with the KLOS and a second stringing I have some concerns to share. I have noticed some significant dead spots at the A's: of 14th G, 12th of A and 7th fret of D. Made more apparent when the bass slightly detuned after fresh strings... at about -20 cents (circumstantial but how I was made aware of the issue). I played the bass the day after a string up and rehearsal and the G happened to be -20 cents flat and the 14th fret a dies in seconds. 7th fret loses the fundamental and the first harmonic rings out same but at a different rate as 12th fret A. Looking carefully and after a rehearsal the nut needs some work in conjunction with final truss rod placement for proper setup, I don't think the neck had enough relief set in it when it was plek'd. It still plays well so I am not saying that far off but my left hand was barking at me for fatigue and each string could come down .015-.009 at the 1st fret. I have been in contact with KLOS and I am waiting to hear back after making a few videos A Vs B Lakland Skyline. They came out this year with a few models from late last year so I really hope they take care of the neck.

interesting you say that.

I've played several carbon fiber violins at my day job, and I found them to have very strong wolf notes. Dead spots on an electric bass neck are the same thing, as far as I know.

Often carbon necks are sold on "no dead spots," which is contrary to my experience, though my experience may be too many variables away from bass necks to say.

Modulus necks look totally different from the carbon weave we always see nowadays - is that a meaningful difference, or just aesthetic? It does look very cool, i'll admit.

 

[Bob_Ross]

Modulus necks look totally different from the carbon weave we always see nowadays - is that a meaningful difference, or just aesthetic? It does look very cool, i'll admit.

The outer layer of carbon on *most* instrument necks — be it the crosshatch weave of a Status or very early Modulus BassStar, or the distinctive “KLD” pattern Modulus is known for — is purely cosmetic. All the structural fiber is underneath that cosmetic layer…and far less interesting aesthetically.

 

[blizzard]

interesting you say that.

I've played several carbon fiber violins at my day job, and I found them to have very strong wolf notes. Dead spots on an electric bass neck are the same thing, as far as I know.

Often carbon necks are sold on "no dead spots," which is contrary to my experience, though my experience may be too many variables away from bass necks to say.

Modulus necks look totally different from the carbon weave we always see nowadays - is that a meaningful difference, or just aesthetic? It does look very cool, i'll admit.

I don't think you can generalise that all carbon necks do / do not have dead spots. Dead spots are result of the neck mass, stiffness and geometry. Different carbon construction methods will result in different stiffness and mass, I imagine a foam core neck would be way different to a epoxy filled neck. However, potentially carbon necks can be made far more repeatably i.e. if you have a design and construction method that results in no dead spots, I would expect all necks to have very similar properties unlike wood necks where you have to deal with different grain structures, densities and moisture content.

 

[RedJag]

The outer layer of carbon on *most* instrument necks — be it the crosshatch weave of a Status or very early Modulus BassStar, or the distinctive “KLD” pattern Modulus is known for — is purely cosmetic. All the structural fiber is underneath that cosmetic layer…and far less interesting aesthetically.

Same for the “black ice” appearance of some of Rainsongs acoustics.

 

[Hapa]

Well... another month and I got a response to send in the bass. In accordance with the post G. Gould is an active member and knows the basses he makes. I had 4 or 5 email exchanges to get a CS response to get what I meant by dead spots. Included were recordings that AB'd to a Lakland... I still don't know if they get it, as the response was "showing videos to my techs", "they should have gotten back to you", we can re-plek" : a la canned zen desk CS support . In my opinion a company as small as them should only have gear heads... at least of their own brand. But they are a carbon fiber neck company - that has expanded into instruments not a dedicated bass company so it is what it is. I am paying to ship it back to them.
I noticed another thing... It could be the be the "blemish" but no way a Modulus/ G.Gould leaves this way.

5/64 almost 3/32" gap after the FB stops is the neck continuing underneath. I admit a little embarrassment not noticing until I started looking in PITA areas for a serial number which this has none. That said, it makes it hard to insure.

The KLOS response "When you ordered your instrument we hadn't yet implemented a serial number system so your bass does not have one. Sorry about that!" understandable... So this one is an early production, pre serialized (lol, please read heavy sarcasm) blemish/ b stock. That they are willing to cover it, so good on them. It is still a great bass but not in the same class as a Gould/ Modulus. Another post coming for sure.

I also recently got the GGi5 from Bubba B, black gloss body Birds eye fb #1155, so I officially have a comparison but not a modulus per se.

 

[micguy]

Carbon fiber is plastic.

You can make things out of plastic that has short carbon fibers in it, but that is not at all what is being done here. Carbon fiber (as done in a lot of things, including bass necks) is a composite material - long carbon fibers (which can run the entire length of the neck, and can be oriented however the designer wishes), which supply the tensile strength and stiff ness, and a glue - epoxy or polyester resin, which binds the fibers together. It's a VERY different material than any simple plastic, and has far different properties.

Wood is also a composite material - it has fibers (cellulose, which can run the length of the neck, but which run the direction that they grew in the tree) and it has lignin - a natural glue, which binds those fibers together. Wood is lighter than carbon fiber - maple is about a third the density of a typical carbon fiber layup - for a carbon fiber neck to be a decent weight, it has to be hollow.

Both wood and carbon fiber are anisotropic materials - they have far different stiffness and strength along the direction of the grain than they across the grain. You can make a neck that will resist the forces of strings tied to them with wood or with carbon fiber. If you try that will plastic in the normal cross sections you would use with wood or carbon fiber, it won't work at all - it won't be stiff or strong enough. It will also be heavier than maple - plastic is about 67% more dense than maple.