Laguna burger build

[BBassBassington]

That's an interesting interpretation. I also picked up on that watching the reruns as a child, but my assumption was that Spock was an introvert, like me, and didn't have interest in the social aspect of being a captain. He was happy with his indirect influence over leadership as a trade off for not wanting to be in the spotlight all the time.

Spock did reach the rank of Captain while teaching at Starfleet Academy. He then goes onto become an Ambassador who leads the reunification efforts between Vulcan and Romulus. So Spock was perfectly fine being a leader but I think it's also fair to say he didn't want to Captain a Starship. He did his leading in his later years too when he was fully at peace with his Human half. So yeah, I'm going to say you're spot on in saying it had to do with the social aspects.

There's also a gap between the intended portrayal of James Kirk and the actual portrayal. One that got exacerbated in the Kelvin timeline movies. Kirk was a great tactician, with strong instincts, and his ship and his mission were always top of mind. Most of his fighting and seducing was just a means to completing the mission. And because 60's TV we don't get to see the missions where he makes diplomatic solutions because the execs wanted babes and action.

 

[/\/\3phist0]

Spock did reach the rank of Captain while teaching at Starfleet Academy. He then goes onto become an Ambassador who leads the reunification efforts between Vulcan and Romulus. So Spock was perfectly fine being a leader but I think it's also fair to say he didn't want to Captain a Starship. He did his leading in his later years too when he was fully at peace with his Human half. So yeah, I'm going to say you're spot on in saying it had to do with the social aspects.

There's also a gap between the intended portrayal of James Kirk and the actual portrayal. One that got exacerbated in the Kelvin timeline movies. Kirk was a great tactician, with strong instincts, and his ship and his mission were always top of mind. Most of his fighting and seducing was just a means to completing the mission. And because 60's TV we don't get to see the missions where he makes diplomatic solutions because the execs wanted babes and action.

Remember that the series was sponsored by Lucille Ball.
This brought the humor, and buffoonery aspects to the fore.

 

[RichterScale]

I think all people are
1 part Spock
1 part Kirk
1 part turkey, that will mindlessly and incessantly follow other turkeys around a tree.
The amount of each varies from person to person.
It gets interesting when there are equal parts, all separate, always at odds, in real time.

 

[/\/\3phist0]

I think all people are
1 part Spock
1 part Kirk
1 part turkey, that will mindlessly and incessantly follow other turkeys around a tree.
The amount of each varies from person to person.
It gets interesting when there are equal parts, all separate, always at odds, in real time.

Don't forget the real McCoy.
I always bonded with Bones.

There to be the cynic, curmudgeon.
The old guy that we all turn into, and turn to for support. Jaded and leery of newfangled contraptions.
Steadfast in his loyalty, certain of human frailties, untrusting of those beings different from humans.
But massively compationate towards life, living things. The simple splendor, and a staunch belief that logic, and science alone: often as not, misses the chaos that mystery of creation, life, and choice provide to existence.

Unequivocally proving that this existence is a mix of faith, science, mystery and wonder. That logic and science will never fully explain all things, that creation was imbued with chaos, for only through chaos is change, and progress possible.

A ship on the sea only moves by the winds of change.

 

[BBassBassington]

Both great replies!

 

[RichterScale]

Frets:
Is it 100% absolutely a rule in stone that they have to be glued, regardless of how tight they go in?
Or, is it optional and more of a peace of mind thing?
I've got 4 in without glue, they went in really tight and I'm getting the rest precut and laid out.
I only have one slot that turned out a little wonky that I'm considering using a dab of glue. Unless it should be all of them.
And while I'm asking:
What's a good grit for initial leveling?
Medium nickel steel.

 

[Flying B]

I would say (in my limited experience) no it's absolutely not essential to glue them in if they are a nice tight fit, in fact I would say it's probably preferable not too.

I think I leveled mine with 120 grit and that was probably too aggressive, I think 180 would be better.

 

[RichterScale]

Thanks.
I have 150 and then a gap to 220.
I think I'll start at 220 and see if I'm making a dent.
If it's too much work, I'll drop to 150 and then jump back up.

 

[RichterScale]

Cool! I found sheets of 180 in the bottom of the sand paper drawer!

 

[TerribleTim68]

I did not glue mine in. My thinking was that if I did a horrible job and totally botched this thing, at least they'd be easier to remove for the next guy.

As for sandpaper, I started with 150 grit, mostly because I just didn't want to remove too much material too fast. Again, worried about botching it, so going slow sounded "better".

 

[/\/\3phist0]

Frets:
Is it 100% absolutely a rule in stone that they have to be glued, regardless of how tight they go in?
Or, is it optional and more of a peace of mind thing?
I've got 4 in without glue, they went in really tight and I'm getting the rest precut and laid out.
I only have one slot that turned out a little wonky that I'm considering using a dab of glue. Unless it should be all of them.
And while I'm asking:
What's a good grit for initial leveling?
Medium nickel steel.

Never glued a fret the entire time I worked at G&L. (Or since, except as a repair, or singular damaged fret, with tearout)

I file them level, personally. 8" japanese file mounted to a maple handle/grip, and a recently acquired 10" diamond file.

Then beam them with 320 to rid the file marks, crown them with a concave diamond file.
Then move to a soft block with @ 1500 grit to buff, then polish with a buffing wheel.
The 1500 wet/dry metal spec removes an amazing amount of material Quickly so watch what you are doing.

Tape off your fretboard! The metal will get into the pores.
The tape will also allow you to use an orbital to polish them, with liquid compound, followed by cleaner wax

 

[/\/\3phist0]

Never glued a fret the entire time I worked at G&L.
I file them level, personally.
Then beam them with 320 to rid the file marks, crown them with a concave diamond file.
Then move to a soft block with @ 1500 grit to buff, then polish with a buffing wheel.
The 1500 wet/dry metal spec removes an amazing amount of material Quickly so watch what you are doing.

Tape off your fretboard! The metal will get into the pores.
The tape will also allow you to use an orbital to polish them, with liquid compound, followed by cleaner wax

Optimally your fretboard is level, the frets set just flush, VERY little material to be removed. Ensure that the neck shaft is supported, very light pressure!
A SLIGHT backbow to have relief " built in" if desired , also if desired a small "fall off" ( more material removed) above 15.

There are many methods ...
All of them start with the truss leveling the fretboard level or slightly back bowed , set using a notched straight edge . *Before you tape off*

You can use the fret tops only, if you trust that the fretwire is seated evenly edge to edge, because you radiused the fretwire to match first, right?

 

[RichterScale]

The fret wire came in a 4' coil. When I untied it, it was already curved very close to the radius. Slightly more actually, which I figured was a good thing.
I got the neck as straight as possible before the frets. It's still holding now that the frets are in.
I'll adjust slightly and brace the neck before diving in with the leveling tomorrow.
I ended up having to pull one out, way up around 22-23, glue and reinstall.
I remember someone asking a while back about how people glue them in without making a mess.- I placed masking tape on either side, right to the edges of the slot, ran a bead of CA down the slot, about 1/8" from the ends, pulled the tape off and put the fret back in. No mess.
That's it for tonight. Got 'em cut, tangs cut back, installed, taped up, ready for an attempt at leveling.
I'll reread the advice before starting again tomorrow.

 

[RichterScale]

Before I start the next one, which will be from scratch, I'll buy or build a fret radiusing jig.
I have a list going of all the stuff I didn't have for this build.
I'm not cheaping out or handicapping myself on any future projects

 

[Beej]

There are soooo many ways to remove the skin from a feline. I made many a neck without gluing frets and used to curse those who did if I had to remove them. But I learned that heat, even from a soldering iron, removes the tack and hold of the glue in seconds and makes the fret removal mucho easier. It works whether the person has glued it with CA, epoxy or carpenter's glue.

There are thousands of necks and hence tens of thousands of frets out there that are not glued and have seated well for a long time. Obviously there are also many manufacturers and smaller builders who don't glue them in. All that said, I like gluing them in now as a couple of forms of insurance.

The first is that the glue in the slot seals the wood down in the slot so that moisture variation has a theoretically less impact. I say theoretical because I haven't personally noticed a difference in my necks with regard to adjustability or movement in the seasons. Though that's probably because I haven't followed my necks all over the world* to see how they have held up with movement across seasons in different locales.

The second is that I find that when I glue in the frets, I get more consistent seating across the fretboard which I find helps with leveling, and that they hold tightly to the board without lifting over time.

A side note about glue - not sure if anyone here uses titebond to glue in frets, but if you do, does it work? On a FB group there are a bunch of people gluing in frets with titebond, but IME, titebond does not really bond to metal in a useful way. At least I find it always flakes right off. You put some 2 part epoxy on metal and it will scrape off, but if you've cleaned the metal with alcohol first, it actually bonds pretty well. Quality CA I find quite a bit more difficult than epoxy to get off clean metal when it's hardened, and hence I use CA to glue in my frets. Any titebond users find it works?


*(technically mostly in North America, but there's one in Japan, one in Israel, and one in the Philippines, so I feel like they are all over the world )

 

[Rôckhewer]

There are soooo many ways to remove the skin from a feline. I made many a neck without gluing frets and used to curse those who did if I had to remove them. But I learned that heat, even from a soldering iron, removes the tack and hold of the glue in seconds and makes the fret removal mucho easier. It works whether the person has glued it with CA, epoxy or carpenter's glue.

There are thousands of necks and hence tens of thousands of frets out there that are not glued and have seated well for a long time. Obviously there are also many manufacturers and smaller builders who don't glue them in. All that said, I like gluing them in now as a couple of forms of insurance.

The first is that the glue in the slot seals the wood down in the slot so that moisture variation has a theoretically less impact. I say theoretical because I haven't personally noticed a difference in my necks with regard to adjustability or movement in the seasons. Though that's probably because I haven't followed my necks all over the world* to see how they have held up with movement across seasons in different locales.

The second is that I find that when I glue in the frets, I get more consistent seating across the fretboard which I find helps with leveling, and that they hold tightly to the board without lifting over time.

A side note about glue - not sure if anyone here uses titebond to glue in frets, but if you do, does it work? On a FB group there are a bunch of people gluing in frets with titebond, but IME, titebond does not really bond to metal in a useful way. At least I find it always flakes right off. You put some 2 part epoxy on metal and it will scrape off, but if you've cleaned the metal with alcohol first, it actually bonds pretty well. Quality CA I find quite a bit more difficult than epoxy to get off clean metal when it's hardened, and hence I use CA to glue in my frets. Any titebond users find it works?


*(technically mostly in North America, but there's one in Japan, one in Israel, and one in the Philippines, so I feel like they are all over the world )

I've used medium visc. CA... pipette applied to the slot... for ALL of the fret jobs I've done.
And... I'm done with such shenanigans.
I feel that a bit of PVA in the slot will be adequate to seal the wood in the slot... give adequate mechanical advantage to the tang barbs... maybe even swell the fibers a little... because... water.

And... I've watched Ben Crowe do it enough times..... (with super easy clean up)... to not be sold on the idea.

 

[Flying B]

I'm always surprised when I see people using wood glue for this. It does not bond to metal and has little or no gap filling property so seems pointless to me.

 

[TrustRod]

I've only used CA or nothing but like the idea of wood glue for the simplicity. It didn't make sense to me until I thought of it like putting a drop in a screw hole, screwing the screw in and then out. Once it dries it firms up the threads and I think it will do the same with the little tang pockets (look for them in your grocer's freezer). So while it's not acting as a direct glue it should lock things up a bit and that should be good enough.

 

[Bruce Johnson]

I glue my frets in with LMI Instrument Maker's Glue, which is a variant of Titebond. The purpose of the glue isn't to help hold the frets in. It's to completely fill the gap in the slot around the fret tang and seal up the wood against moisture. Pressing /hammering the fret in forces the glue into the end grain on the side walls of the slot.

Moisture seeping in around the frets and sinking into the end grain in the slots causes the wood to swell. That pressure, applied against all the frets along the neck, is the biggest cause of necks bending when the humidity goes up. Short term instability, truss rod adjustments, etc. And when that wood next to the fret swells, it also tends to push the fret up. And when the weather dries up again, the frets are raised up and loose.

So, in a roundabout way, gluing the frets in helps keep the frets down and tight.

Like Beej said, the glue also helps lubricate the slots and the frets go in easier and seat better.

 

[RichterScale]

I'm going to invent and sell fret glue.
The ingredients will not be listed on the bottle.
It will cost $39.99.
I will be rich.
The end.