I feel inadequate since all I have are a bunch of 4's.
But then, I am inadequate. Perfectly inadequate, the highest level of inadequacy humanly possible for one to achieve!
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Lakland v Sadowsky
- Thread starter kokorollc
- Start date
But then, I am inadequate. Perfectly inadequate, the highest level of inadequacy humanly possible for one to achieve!
Just curious. It’s so hard to judge realistic value of instruments these days. As an example I have two Lakland 55-94s. One is more recent with a koa top. Beautiful. Plays like a dream. The other is a late 90s with a highly figured maple board. New ones sell for $5k but don’t bring that on the used market. I’ve always felt a fair price was anywhere $2700-3500
Resale value reflects demand for a bass, not the quality of construction. If I were a gambling man, I would bet a used 55-94 is better put together than a 1972 Fender Jazz, but we know the Fender commands a much higher price. Sadowsky’s made in NYC command the most money. Japanese Metros are still a good deal, but many experienced Sadowsky Bro’s rate Japanese Metros above German Metros. I think we will know more clearly how German Metros are viewed in a few more years.
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Is that where the dings come from? I honestly have no idea how some of them get there.
Excellent points. I have a Japanese Sadowsky metro. It has the exact same build quality of my NYC. Just no fancy woods and a hair heavier.
Of the two I have I prefer the lakland in both sound and feel
I own one Japanese Metro and to me they are pretty much the same as the German made. The only thing German made offer is a wider choice of finishes.
That is exactly my experience too. The neck feels slightly different too, but I have the exact same pleasure playing both. Even if I play mostly my NYC ones as they'are Modern 5 and my Japanes is a Jazz 5. I prefer the massive tone of the Modern 5
I hope they’re wrong. I sold my Japanese Metro a couple of years and I’m waiting on a German Metroline to arrive. My suspicion is it’s just a matter of individual taste.
No, you'll be totally fine with this new model. You will feel the same playing it, unless some bias is involved.
My experience comes from the workingmans income level regarding sadowsky & Lakland.
My first lakland was a very early 55-94 that had the jack on the face of the body. Got it used at GC for $1600 in the very early 2000’s. Was wonderful, used it for years. Then added a natural 55-02,($899) and eventually sold the 55-94 for a tidy profit. Using a Lakland 5 for long gigs was taxing due to the weight. I loved the tone, and it worked really well in the diverse club date scene. Bandleaders loved the full round tone. I remember the day I plugged the 55-94 in for the first time. Band leaders head turn around and he said “wow, that sounds great”. But i was young, and stronger.
Never even been in the financial ballpark to afford a NYC sadowsky. And in all honesty was late to the game regarding what they actually offered. Thing about a Sadowsky is, you really don’t recognize how well they sit in a band till you use it. My first affordable Sadowsky was a Japan Metroline Modern 5 before the VTC was introduced ( 2007?) It was light weight, incredible build quality, and how it sat in the mix, made it just wonderful in a band setting. Got it used , sight unseen for $1600 from a music shop in TX.
Never touched the lakland again. Sold all things Lakland 5. Also grabbed a brand new Japan MetroExpress ( ESP Made $1875) Maple board 5 With the VTC when they came out. Professional grade bass and under two grand. This exampled the Jazz version of the Sadowsky tone. Same specs, light, fantastic build quality, sounded like a Sadowsky J bass.
Now fast forward a few more years, I’ve moved to 4’s pretty much exclusively, and whats my #1? Sadowsky Modern 4 Japan metroline. I must have said this dozens of times in these threads. A japan sadowsky is one of the best bass values available today. You just gotta hunt to find one. On the used market they’re always $1000 below the cost of a german metro, and without some of the QC foibles. I know the German metro’s are very nice but who hasn’t read about sticky tuners or some other problem that should absolutely not exist in a $3000 bass .
Now the odd thing is, lakland really hit a home run in their import line. Great build quality. US electrics and hardware. Mike Tobias even slipped a little during a builder round table saying there was “a” manufacturer that almost put themselves out of the US market , because their imports were so good, and virtually identical to the US models. I’m pretty sure he was talkin about Lakland.
On the other hand, the Chinese Sadowsky debacle, I have too many stories of dozens of those coming across my bench. For a few years I made a tidy profit, buying basket case chinese Sadowsky’s, fixing the QC issues, upgrading the pre ,and sending them out as gig ready pro-sumer models. But gosh. What a mess. And the cash grab by omitting the VTC and then asking another $200+ to upgrade a chinese bass with possible QC issues. Its one thing if you’re going to offer an entry level ( to the brand) instrument. But one with less features, and QC issues at well over a grand? lesson learned.
One of the most surprising things I ever got was a reply in a thread from Roger when I spoke about the lack of VTC in the Chinese line. His reply had me taken aback. Quote: “ its and entry level instrument, don’t expect it to be something its not”.
So here we are today. And what did I just buy out of our classifieds…?
2004 55-02. 8lbs, sounds great, superb build quality. Cheaper than a used chinese Sadowsky. This rivals a Japan Sadowsky at half the price. Switching between this and ….
This…is going to be a fun comparo this gigging season.
My first lakland was a very early 55-94 that had the jack on the face of the body. Got it used at GC for $1600 in the very early 2000’s. Was wonderful, used it for years. Then added a natural 55-02,($899) and eventually sold the 55-94 for a tidy profit. Using a Lakland 5 for long gigs was taxing due to the weight. I loved the tone, and it worked really well in the diverse club date scene. Bandleaders loved the full round tone. I remember the day I plugged the 55-94 in for the first time. Band leaders head turn around and he said “wow, that sounds great”. But i was young, and stronger.
Never even been in the financial ballpark to afford a NYC sadowsky. And in all honesty was late to the game regarding what they actually offered. Thing about a Sadowsky is, you really don’t recognize how well they sit in a band till you use it. My first affordable Sadowsky was a Japan Metroline Modern 5 before the VTC was introduced ( 2007?) It was light weight, incredible build quality, and how it sat in the mix, made it just wonderful in a band setting. Got it used , sight unseen for $1600 from a music shop in TX.
Never touched the lakland again. Sold all things Lakland 5. Also grabbed a brand new Japan MetroExpress ( ESP Made $1875) Maple board 5 With the VTC when they came out. Professional grade bass and under two grand. This exampled the Jazz version of the Sadowsky tone. Same specs, light, fantastic build quality, sounded like a Sadowsky J bass.
Now fast forward a few more years, I’ve moved to 4’s pretty much exclusively, and whats my #1? Sadowsky Modern 4 Japan metroline. I must have said this dozens of times in these threads. A japan sadowsky is one of the best bass values available today. You just gotta hunt to find one. On the used market they’re always $1000 below the cost of a german metro, and without some of the QC foibles. I know the German metro’s are very nice but who hasn’t read about sticky tuners or some other problem that should absolutely not exist in a $3000 bass .
Now the odd thing is, lakland really hit a home run in their import line. Great build quality. US electrics and hardware. Mike Tobias even slipped a little during a builder round table saying there was “a” manufacturer that almost put themselves out of the US market , because their imports were so good, and virtually identical to the US models. I’m pretty sure he was talkin about Lakland.
On the other hand, the Chinese Sadowsky debacle, I have too many stories of dozens of those coming across my bench. For a few years I made a tidy profit, buying basket case chinese Sadowsky’s, fixing the QC issues, upgrading the pre ,and sending them out as gig ready pro-sumer models. But gosh. What a mess. And the cash grab by omitting the VTC and then asking another $200+ to upgrade a chinese bass with possible QC issues. Its one thing if you’re going to offer an entry level ( to the brand) instrument. But one with less features, and QC issues at well over a grand? lesson learned.
One of the most surprising things I ever got was a reply in a thread from Roger when I spoke about the lack of VTC in the Chinese line. His reply had me taken aback. Quote: “ its and entry level instrument, don’t expect it to be something its not”.
So here we are today. And what did I just buy out of our classifieds…?
2004 55-02. 8lbs, sounds great, superb build quality. Cheaper than a used chinese Sadowsky. This rivals a Japan Sadowsky at half the price. Switching between this and ….
This…is going to be a fun comparo this gigging season.
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Thanks for the above post. I got a Metro Express last year and a German Metroline is supposed to arrive today. I’m hoping that it’s far enough along in the production process that any bugs have been worked out. Regarding the tuners, they work fine on my Metro Express so far.
Yes, they have. First versions were a bit weird sometimes but it belongs to the past now.
Can you explain to me why it is so terrible without the VTC, because I'm not finding a problem or any obvious shortcoming in the pre tone on my ME Hybrid. Perhaps because I've only had Ibanez and Kubicki pre's I don't realize what I am missing with the VTC? Granted, I'm only using bedroom tone and a Rumble100, but it seems fine to me "as is." But I'm just a stupid caveman.......
Many of the Chinese models are just fine without the VTC. But some are very thin and bright, and without the VTC it’s impossible to warm them up. My first modern did not have one and it was just fine. That instrument was plenty warm without it. But the combination of the body wood with the roasted maple neck has a tendency to create a brighter in instrument versus the Japan units, which used alder and Ash, and necks that weren’t heat treated. Roasted necks are inherently brighter than non roasted. Thus increasing the need for a VTC on those models.
Perhaps because I have the more dominant P-bass p'up driving most of the tone I don't notice it being lacking?
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My point is…..the “entry level” import Lakland came with every feature offered on the US Lakland. The Entry level Sadowsky, omits an important ability, which is to roll OFF unwanted high end. The “boost only” design of the sadowsky pre makes it impossible to roll off unwanted highs ( if your instrument applies) unless you fork over for a $200+ upgrade. The Lakland’s +/- pre permits roll off of specific high frequencies. Not a broad frequency range like a vintage tone control, BUT you can quell unwanted brightness.
Alot of chinese Sadowsky owners say they do not miss the VTC. ,such as yourself…..More power to em’.
Another point is, The Chinese Sadowsky line has gone thru major review and mods in more recent years, ( Better bridge and headstock hardware, baked necks, less QC issues) and are currently about 30% less than a new Skyline. But if you think you need a VTC, or want a VTC+mid bump pre, the upcharge negates the lower pricing, and you’re much closer to new Lakland pricing.
Also, sadowsky’s chinese line uses chinese manufactured versions of the pickups and electronics. Not the german/nyc stuff. As where Lakland uses the US stuff in their import line. if you’ve ever looked under the hood of a chinese non VTC pre, the build quality is a cost effective version of the better MEC made pre’s in the higher lines.
When I modded/repaired the first run chinese sadowsky’s i used to get on the waaaay cheap, I always upgraded the pre, the bridge, and the string tree. Then I’d make sure the everything was level, straight, and correct. And they were great. Once sorted, they’re really quite good “entry level to the brand” instruments. Far more representative of what the brand really offered. I mean, I’ve loved Sadowsky’s since I got my first metro modern in 08’. I guess this is why i’d devote this many paragraphs to em.
Both companies are a blessing to us players. I’m elated to have them both in my stable.
Alot of chinese Sadowsky owners say they do not miss the VTC. ,such as yourself…..More power to em’.
Another point is, The Chinese Sadowsky line has gone thru major review and mods in more recent years, ( Better bridge and headstock hardware, baked necks, less QC issues) and are currently about 30% less than a new Skyline. But if you think you need a VTC, or want a VTC+mid bump pre, the upcharge negates the lower pricing, and you’re much closer to new Lakland pricing.
Also, sadowsky’s chinese line uses chinese manufactured versions of the pickups and electronics. Not the german/nyc stuff. As where Lakland uses the US stuff in their import line. if you’ve ever looked under the hood of a chinese non VTC pre, the build quality is a cost effective version of the better MEC made pre’s in the higher lines.
When I modded/repaired the first run chinese sadowsky’s i used to get on the waaaay cheap, I always upgraded the pre, the bridge, and the string tree. Then I’d make sure the everything was level, straight, and correct. And they were great. Once sorted, they’re really quite good “entry level to the brand” instruments. Far more representative of what the brand really offered. I mean, I’ve loved Sadowsky’s since I got my first metro modern in 08’. I guess this is why i’d devote this many paragraphs to em.
Both companies are a blessing to us players. I’m elated to have them both in my stable.
I’m quite happy with my Lakland 55-94’s. The one that got away was a used Sadowsky NYC that was at JGravity Strings in 1990 with a $2,500.00 price tag. I probably should have bought that one. 
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Question:
That NYC Sadowsky you have there, is the Lakland J sound setting at least somewhat similar to the Sadowsky? I find my skyline’s J tone doesn’t resemble my moderns tone at all, but the modern is more tuned like a Smith/MTD than a J bass.
