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Double Bass Laminated/Plyood Basses
- Thread starter JoshRose
- Start date
Opinions vary, and you are aware of the advantages and limitations related to plywood. But I LOVE my 15 year old Englehardt strung w/ guts. IMO&E a well setup Engle compares favorably with just about any Kay - at about a third of the price. Realize that Engle neck profiles vary, but tend to be on the narrow side. You can regularly pick up a used Engle for right around $1k.
I have very limited experience/knowledge about other inexpensive plys, as I have only really focussed on comparing my Engle to old plys such as Kays, Kings, etc.
I have very limited experience/knowledge about other inexpensive plys, as I have only really focussed on comparing my Engle to old plys such as Kays, Kings, etc.
Earl
Supporting Member
You can find a used Shen SB80 for around that price - great bass!
First, I would go try some ply basses to see if you could stand playing one for hours at a time. I could not. You might look at hybrids. Having the nice bass to compare it to will certainly highlight the drawbacks of a ply bass. I feel a big downgrade and feel the extra effort when move from old carved bass to my hybrid travel bass.
If it does seem viable to you, an old Kay or a Shen are your best bets in that range. An Engel is especially the wrong tool for the job here, they are overbuilt tanks that are tough to play.
If it does seem viable to you, an old Kay or a Shen are your best bets in that range. An Engel is especially the wrong tool for the job here, they are overbuilt tanks that are tough to play.
There is quite a selection; you have modern instruments vs the vintage American made classics. I think the older American made plywood basses are worth having, just my opinion (others may differ). Without being accused of stating the obvious, see what is available in your area and try playing a few. I have two double basses; a 2022 hybrid and a 71 year-old Kay. I think Kay's are a good bet for ply, but that is just me. I would add the caveat that in my opinion $1500 is too low to get something worthwhile; I would spend at least $2500 (I should add I am in Canada, where you are located quality instruments may be priced more reasonably). It will be worth the difference. Cheers and good luck.
I had great luck with a Shen SB80. It was my first upright and long before I was tinkering with setups, so I paid to have it worked on. I think I was all in at about that $1k range (this was nearly a decade ago) and the bass played and sounded great!
Great idea Josh！
Why not lower the budget even furthermore to see how low you can get and it will be a beater bass anyways... right?
For approximately a third of your budget I got this:
This is a Paganini bass violin brand, plywood all the way through and durable to withstand street buskin'.
To be more nimble out on the streets the bass travels with no case, street musicians in Indonesia do it, why can we not?:
Me takin' the a train^^
On any case you are permitted to practise, should you and the bass be on a standstill.
Have fun with it, people are intrigued by the bass its appearance and sound.
Rama
P.S. The two other thirds of your budget could be spent on your choice of strings and setup to your liking.
Why not lower the budget even furthermore to see how low you can get and it will be a beater bass anyways... right?
For approximately a third of your budget I got this:
This is a Paganini bass violin brand, plywood all the way through and durable to withstand street buskin'.
To be more nimble out on the streets the bass travels with no case, street musicians in Indonesia do it, why can we not?:
Me takin' the a train^^
On any case you are permitted to practise, should you and the bass be on a standstill.
Have fun with it, people are intrigued by the bass its appearance and sound.
Rama
P.S. The two other thirds of your budget could be spent on your choice of strings and setup to your liking.
I agree with the Shen recommendation. I have an SB88 and I’m very happy with it. And I don’t have to worry about it.
Shen makes wonderful basses. I had not realized that a used one could be gotten so inexpensively.
You don't say what your intentions are for a ply bass, but I truly LOVE having a nice hybrid set up primarily for arco, and a nice ply set up w/ guts exactly as I desire for BG/oldtime. IMO, neither performs the others' function nearly as well. Having 2 basses set up quite differently is IMO a wonderful luxury.
I truly respect the folk who say, "Don't be owned by your possessions. Take your best bass everywhere and glory in the well-earned scars!" But I'm not at that point yet, and love having a bass I don't care if it catches a doorframe. I don't kick my ply down the steps or drag it behind the car or anything, but I will just lay it down (with bumpers) on a parking lot. I'm amazed it has not gotten more beat up than it has. Really impresses me as to how hard some of the old basses you see must have been ridden to amass the scars they have!
Consider all opinions - but form your own. And don't hesitate to revise it as you obtain more data.
You don't say what your intentions are for a ply bass, but I truly LOVE having a nice hybrid set up primarily for arco, and a nice ply set up w/ guts exactly as I desire for BG/oldtime. IMO, neither performs the others' function nearly as well. Having 2 basses set up quite differently is IMO a wonderful luxury.
I truly respect the folk who say, "Don't be owned by your possessions. Take your best bass everywhere and glory in the well-earned scars!" But I'm not at that point yet, and love having a bass I don't care if it catches a doorframe. I don't kick my ply down the steps or drag it behind the car or anything, but I will just lay it down (with bumpers) on a parking lot. I'm amazed it has not gotten more beat up than it has. Really impresses me as to how hard some of the old basses you see must have been ridden to amass the scars they have!
Consider all opinions - but form your own. And don't hesitate to revise it as you obtain more data.
Greg Clinkingbeard
Commercial User
$1500 may not be enough unless you really score a deal. I recommend you work with your luthier to find a bass that is set up similar to your number one to minimize your adjustment when changing basses. I second and third the recommendation of a Shen 88, but if your current bass has an Eb neck and that’s important to you…………………..
When I got my new carved bass in 2010, I kept my Kay as a backup. I'm certainly not a Kay-hater, but what killed it was the vast difference in setup between the two instruments. It made the Kay virtually unplayable for me. I eventually gave it to someone who is enjoying it.
The Shens that I tried when I was bass shopping were, for one thing, good capable plywood basses. But also, they're made to support a more "modern" setup, and I find them to be much more playable.
I won't dispute whether anybody needs a backup bass. My present situation doesn't call for one. When a gig involves particularly obscene logistics or weather, I've got my pork chop. Boy I'm glad I threw it in the car for one gig last summer, that turned out to be on the deck of a large tour boat on the Wisconsin River. Within minutes of setting sail, it started pouring. I had snuck my electric on board just in case. The captain let me stash my upright in his wheel house, and I played my electric for the rest of the voyage. We were supposedly under cover, but on a boat in a downpour, nothing stays dry.
The Shens that I tried when I was bass shopping were, for one thing, good capable plywood basses. But also, they're made to support a more "modern" setup, and I find them to be much more playable.
I won't dispute whether anybody needs a backup bass. My present situation doesn't call for one. When a gig involves particularly obscene logistics or weather, I've got my pork chop. Boy I'm glad I threw it in the car for one gig last summer, that turned out to be on the deck of a large tour boat on the Wisconsin River. Within minutes of setting sail, it started pouring. I had snuck my electric on board just in case. The captain let me stash my upright in his wheel house, and I played my electric for the rest of the voyage. We were supposedly under cover, but on a boat in a downpour, nothing stays dry.
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I would keep an eye out for a used Shen, Eastman, or Engelhardt. @JoshRose what kind of music is this for? I will both agree and disagree with others regarding a hybrid: agree because it's obviously a step up from a ply and, for certain settings like orchestra or chamber music, I would really avoid a ply bass; but if it's pizzicato your after, laminate is fine. Hell, if you're playing through an amp at moderately loud volume, it will likely matter very little.
I will also add that even arco playing on a laminate bass can be very satisfying for an experienced player. Learning arco is a different story, but given your current instrument I'm guessing you have a lot of experience playing. I played my Engelhardt in gypsy jazz and folk bands for several years, and I'm totally comfortable taking arco solos on it over gypsy standards (after years of study on a decent carved bass).
P.S.--I may be listing my Engelhardt for sale soon. I have a carved bass and an Eastman hybrid that I just bought, so something has to go.
PPS--I have never liked the skinny neck on the Engelhardt. Other than that, it's a joy to play (but I feel that way about any bass with a decent setup).
I will also add that even arco playing on a laminate bass can be very satisfying for an experienced player. Learning arco is a different story, but given your current instrument I'm guessing you have a lot of experience playing. I played my Engelhardt in gypsy jazz and folk bands for several years, and I'm totally comfortable taking arco solos on it over gypsy standards (after years of study on a decent carved bass).
P.S.--I may be listing my Engelhardt for sale soon. I have a carved bass and an Eastman hybrid that I just bought, so something has to go.
PPS--I have never liked the skinny neck on the Engelhardt. Other than that, it's a joy to play (but I feel that way about any bass with a decent setup).
I like both of my mid-century Kays very much but they are not without their quirks. If you’re looking for a trouble-free instrument you should factor in the fact that many Kays need a fair amount of work to become playable and reliable. A troublesome neck joint design and thin necks have led to a lot of janky Kays out in the wild.
If you decide to go the vintage Kay route you can end up with an instrument you’re very happy with but you should expect to either buy one that’s been thoroughly gone over by a pro or expect to have one gone over. In either case it might push you outside of the $1,500 price range.
If you decide to go the vintage Kay route you can end up with an instrument you’re very happy with but you should expect to either buy one that’s been thoroughly gone over by a pro or expect to have one gone over. In either case it might push you outside of the $1,500 price range.
Greg Clinkingbeard
Commercial User
A good backup bass is something that may not be used often but if you need it, you need it. Remember Yo Yo Ma using that CF cello for Obama’s inauguration on a very cold day? Why take that old Italian bass to the Memorial Day concert on a hot humid day?
At the other extreme, plywoods are probably the best sounding option for the amplified bar gig where there is much more volume coming out of the amp than the bass. Comparing a Shen Hybid to the 88 I think the hybrid is a better bass for most situations, but an 88 strung with Spirocores can take the stick quite well and is very good for amplified pizz. I no longer recommend Kays of Engies in stock form due to the thin neck. Throw some cash at them and they can be very good. However, there isn’t enough input from the OP to really make a recommendation.
At the other extreme, plywoods are probably the best sounding option for the amplified bar gig where there is much more volume coming out of the amp than the bass. Comparing a Shen Hybid to the 88 I think the hybrid is a better bass for most situations, but an 88 strung with Spirocores can take the stick quite well and is very good for amplified pizz. I no longer recommend Kays of Engies in stock form due to the thin neck. Throw some cash at them and they can be very good. However, there isn’t enough input from the OP to really make a recommendation.
To add to the excellent suggestions, Mark Leue offers a removable neck hybrid for a little more than your budget:
https://www.theluthier.us/copy-of-carved-template-page-43
https://www.theluthier.us/copy-of-carved-template-page-43
my primary bass not only cost the price of a new car, but was also a long wait and could never be replicated.
i still have my first bass, a shen SB80, for this reason. it's impeccably set up and truthfully it's a very nice bass in a lot of ways. i highly recommend this model, and the more expensive shen laminate is nicer as well.
you can for more money go for a fully restored kay - those are obviously a great choice.
but, for the money, the shen 80 rocks. it really sounds lovely, it's just not the same type of sound as a fancy carved bass. especially for jazz it's a totally acceptable instrument, and the peace of mind it gives me when commuting with it is well worth the price.
they're also relatively easy to sell, should you not need it any longer later in life.
I’ve got one of these. I bought it back in 2016 but it wasn’t called the “scholar” back then. I chose this bass mainly for the ebony board and tailpiece that many comparably priced basses don’t have.
It did need further set up though. The action was punishingly high and need different strings (silver slaps) nut slots depend an fretboard shaping. I did all this myself though since I’ve been working on guitars and EB’s for many years.
About 2 years back, the finger board popped off.
I attribute this to it being subjected to harsh climatic changes in my gigging schedule and leaving it strung to full tension in storage. Fixed that myself too and swapped in a hardwood sound post, and lightened up the end pin while I was at it. I’ve recently put a Dirty Guts in the G and D slots and I believe I’ve finally got what I didn’t know I was looking for.
