Last gig with an amp!

[Nek07]

I went ampless once. The production company was supposed to provide backline according to the contract, but they didn't. All I could get to hear myself onstage was through the vocal monitors. They had no bottom end at all - their monitors were designed to do just vocals. The sound was awful.

My first ampless stage was also a poor experience, except that I had my amp on stage, just not authorised to turn it on (and when I tried, someone snapped the power plug). I could only ear myself with the FOH because the sound guy would not "compromised" his FOH with low frequency on stage, so not even in the stage monitor. It was kind of like walking in the dark. That was actually a selection for a big festival in France...we didnt get hired, it caused anger in the band like it was my fault...bad day.

 

[DJ Bebop]

So the popular adage goes with age comes lighter gear. I turn 65 next month, what is wrong with me? View attachment 5366754 I took this out last weekend. It was a beautiful outdoor gig. I did it partly to prove to myself that I could still load and unload it. It was awesome! We recently upgraded our PA from passive sub/mains to a LD linear array system. The sad thing is that I now have a music room full of amps that I no longer need. We’re on IEMs so we’ll be amp-less on stage. I was using various amps to help fill in the low mids and low end depending on the venue. With the frequency response and power of the new system, it’s not required even at big outdoor venues. I’ll hold onto my stuff for awhile and rotate them as practice amps. From now on, just DI from the pedal board!

Welcome to the future!

I'm fortunate that my gigs and most venues I play are small enough that I need to have my little amp, WD 800-SW 115. Usually the PA is some form of speakers on sticks. No IEM foolishness, yet.

 

[pepj]

Nope. This doesn’t even make sense.

it’s pretty obvious for self-mixing bands that ears won’t work. We’re not even on that topic.

But as with all things….

You do you.

This! Did an In Ear Monitor gig with a mix of midi tracks. Sounded good in the In Ears. No band in FOH! Only the midi tracks! Had no idea until the videos were produced! I was pissed as this was a highly anticipated show.

Yep, which is why its critical to have an out front reference.
The number of times I've had gtr strumming away and i can't hear him in ears. Ok, thats a fix you either go for or you could pass on. Not ideal but you can cope. (not my band though so not something I'm busting to fix when I'm concentrating on getting my part working with horns and keys etc)
but its all a bit late when the audience dont respond and the gig is flat..and then you find out why.

So, the point stands. Beware that the mix you need actuals hits out front.
If the Engr doesnt know the track, it mighg not be obvious to him parts or sounds are missing.

Cant begin to tell you how often this 'amateur hr' happens on more sub dates that i care to mention.
Its got to the point that when said Sub enquiry mentions they use ears, its such a red flag.

Its no silver bullet..

 

[Bassistcool]

I let go my amps and all effects a couple of years ago. Just using IEM and a Kemper Stage, that's all I need. More control of the sound and volume are my benefits I would'nt miss anymore. Sad for all these great amps and all that vintage stuff, but I don't miss em all.

 

[mattie13]

+1 for amps and cabs. I play punk and metal, often in house/basement venues with limited PA support. IEMs aren't in the budget, but even in situations where I could conceivably go direct to the PA, I'd prefer not to.

Also I'm young and there's usually boys around to help carry the heavy stuff

 

[Hurricane Jimmie]

what is wrong with me?

So Anyway, for starters, you took the PU Cover off the Ric.

Nice Gear!

 

[munnkyboy]

I'm there too...this year...no more back line...which was an SVT....It's fine...but weird...but sound techs are much happier these days that's for damn sure..and plexi for drums

 

[bstringrandy]

So Anyway, for starters, you took the PU Cover off the Ric.

Nice Gear!

Yep, that thing was gone before the stickers came off!!

 

[bassliner50]

I am 73 and still gigging actively. I can't imagine myself going ampless before I kick the bucket. Instead, my bass amps have become smaller and much lighter thanks to class D amplifiers and neodymium speakers. My gig bag now weighs more than my amplification. How can I reduce music stands, bass stands, cables huge accumulation of paper charts etc?

 

[Hundred proof]

 

[Stranger Danger]

I’m deaf in one ear and have a hearing aid. Not sure I’m the intended audience for IEM

 

[USAJO]

IEMs are the way to go. Otherwise, why would almost all large touring acts use them? My old band used IEMs for 12 years and it was great. And we did "rehearse" after soundchecks with no issues. All the audience, or people in the bar, heard were the drums but the band had no problems.

My current band is back to amps on stage. I hate it. Load in/out is a pain. It's loud on stage. I can't hear the other musicians as well as I would like. Doing IEMs right takes a solid financial investment up front, but it is well worth it in the long run.

I've found most of the people who find reasons not to use IEMs and go ampless are those who have never done it, or did not do it properly. I read very few posts where people say "I'm so happy we ditched our IEM set up and went back ..."

Lol and they loved hearing drums? I think not. I’ve used IEM’s many times for Casino gigs. I hated it. There’s a disconnect. Can’t communicate on stage verbally with the other band members. It made me feel isolated from them and the audience. They also make my ears itch.

if the people in the band are adults and play at comfortable volumes it’s what I want my stage time to be.

Not criticizing others who love IEM’s it’s just not for me and I’ve used them.

 

[Danny O Danny]

When my wife (keyboardist/singer) and I formed our new band about 6 months ago, we committed to "silent stage" and IEMs. We love it. The guitarist (acoustic) and percussionist who joined our band love it too. We can hear each other so much better and each of us has total control over what we hear in our personal monitor mix. We use the little Behringer individual monitor mixers, which connect to the IEM system via Ethernet and can be hung off of mic stands.

The key thing is that our personal monitor mix is completely independent of the FOH mixer. We have a small rack that has the IEM system, including a multi-channel preamp and a multi-channel XLR splitter (1 in / 2 out). So we plug our mics and instruments into the the splitter in our rack, and then for each input, one XLR cable goes out into our IEM system preamp and the other XLR cable goes out to the FOH mixer. Thus, the FOH mixer has zero control over our IEMs, and what we hear in our IEMs is the exact same regardless of if we're rehearsing, or playing a gig using our own FOH system, or playing a gig using the venue's FOH system. We get enough bleed into the IEMs of audience noise through the vocal and drum mics to prevent us from feeling isolated. If we ever felt the need, we could setup an "ambient" mic to pick up crowd noise, but we haven't felt that need yet.

I sold all my amps and cabs except a compact 1x12 RevSound that I keep around in case I'm ever asked to sit in somewhere where a stage rig is needed. I also kept my beloved Demeter 400D amp for that purpose, and it also serves as the preamp/DI for my bass into the IEMs. The result is the same bass sound in the IEMs that I've come to know and love from the Demeter.

During soundcheck, if I want to hear the FOH mix, I've got a 50' guitar cable I can plug in, pop out my IEMs, and stroll out front to check it out (would be even easier if I went wireless). A good FOH mix is so much easier to achieve now because it's not competing with instrument volume coming off of the stage.

YMMV, of course, but from my perspective this has been a monumental change for the better. I think maybe I got gradually acclimated to hearing my bass through IEMs because for several years I've mostly done my bass practicing using headphones.

 

[40Hz]

I date from an era when the backline was the FOH, a PA was only used for vocals, and monitors (if you had any) were wedges in front of mic stands and restricted mainly to the vocal mix.

Despite all the obvious drawbacks and pitfalls it was still possible to get a good house mix with that setup. However, the art of EQing and balancing a backline for that purpose is pretty much a lost art. And having lived through many gigs with the limitations and frustrations with such setups I’m not the least bit sorry to see it fade into the past.

When I’ve been asked how was it possible I tell them you had to know your gear inside out. And your band had to rehearse like crazy until everyone in the band knew exactly what everyone else in the band was doing - and might be going to do - for every single song without necessarily being able to hear every nuance and note. Of course we now live in an era where some people pride themselves on how little they rehearse so the second part of of my reply often falls on deaf ears.

I’ve done a total of three gigs on the so-called silent stage with IEMs. It felt a little weird at first. But I got used to it pretty quickly once I realized it’s not much different than recording with a set of cans on your ears. By the third time I did it the benefits were obvious. And I even started to like it.

But once you make the switch you also need to add another member to your band. Because the FOH console jockey is the key to the kingdom and just as critical to your sound as any singer or instrument. I’ve seen a lot of bands with some amazing FOH systems try to either run their boards on the “set and forget” basis or control it remotely via a tablet. And with one rare exception it didn’t seem to work out too well for most of them.

By the same token your sound person needs to be sane, sober, and focused throughout your show. Last thing you need running sound is your BL’s slacker brother in law who’s half buzzed by the end of soundcheck and can’t keep his eyes off the well proportioned young single mom hanging out by the bar.

I personally think the new direction for stage sound is a major improvement over a floor full of amps. I don’t mind being able to hear everything for a change when I’m playing live. And I never once enjoyed having to haul a few hundred pounds of gear around just to play bass. But maybe that’s just me.

 

[Guitalia]

The fact that you have a volume control where you can turn them as low as you want in your mix is a far more important thing than the whole "look at me, I'm getting feedback" thing - which is always a crapshoot as to if it will work. If you're playing on a wooden stage, and have a FOH person that likes bass, a bassist can often get feedback that way from putting the headstock on the floor.

By the way, Fernandes makes sustainers for that, and there used to be a Boss pedal that did a very good fake feedback.

Look up YouTube videos for the Digitech FreqOut pedal. Amazingly flexible automatic feedback generator.

 

[s0c9]

When my wife (keyboardist/singer) and I formed our new band about 6 months ago, we committed to "silent stage" and IEMs. We love it. The guitarist (acoustic) and percussionist who joined our band love it too. We can hear each other so much better and each of us has total control over what we hear in our personal monitor mix. We use the little Behringer individual monitor mixers, which connect to the IEM system via Ethernet and can be hung off of mic stands.

The key thing is that our personal monitor mix is completely independent of the FOH mixer. We have a small rack that has the IEM system, including a multi-channel preamp and a multi-channel XLR splitter (1 in / 2 out). So we plug our mics and instruments into the the splitter in our rack, and then for each input, one XLR cable goes out into our IEM system preamp and the other XLR cable goes out to the FOH mixer. Thus, the FOH mixer has zero control over our IEMs, and what we hear in our IEMs is the exact same regardless of if we're rehearsing, or playing a gig using our own FOH system, or playing a gig using the venue's FOH system. We get enough bleed into the IEMs of audience noise through the vocal and drum mics to prevent us from feeling isolated. If we ever felt the need, we could setup an "ambient" mic to pick up crowd noise, but we haven't felt that need yet.

I sold all my amps and cabs except a compact 1x12 RevSound that I keep around in case I'm ever asked to sit in somewhere where a stage rig is needed. I also kept my beloved Demeter 400D amp for that purpose, and it also serves as the preamp/DI for my bass into the IEMs. The result is the same bass sound in the IEMs that I've come to know and love from the Demeter.

During soundcheck, if I want to hear the FOH mix, I've got a 50' guitar cable I can plug in, pop out my IEMs, and stroll out front to check it out (would be even easier if I went wireless). A good FOH mix is so much easier to achieve now because it's not competing with instrument volume coming off of the stage.

YMMV, of course, but from my perspective this has been a monumental change for the better. I think maybe I got gradually acclimated to hearing my bass through IEMs because for several years I've mostly done my bass practicing using headphones.

AWESOME!
My band has been doing that (without the P16M’s) since 2012 (10+ yrs). After 10 yrs my main band has been on hiatus for 18 months while members do other stuff so I sub with multiple bands. They are all IEM and use X32R, XR18 or Mackie DL16S mixers. ALL of them are wireless, so I have a sub “rig” with bass wireless and IEM xmitter housed in a rack that sits under my pedalboard (no amp). Two XLR’s… one TO mixer from pedalboard for bass and one FROM mixer to IEM xmitter. Bass wireless output goes to pedalboard input. Pedalboard sits on top of rack..
Works great..

 

[shoot-r]

Ok if you mix out front otherwise a minefield of potential pain.

If your outfront mix is poor, iem are no use to the band.
Its amazing how many people dont actually get this.
I hear it a lot.

Big +1, and Amen and Amen!

 

[Crash 56]

My band crossed that rubicon a couple years ago... now my Mesa/Bergantino rig collects dust!

 

[shoot-r]

I've found most of the people who find reasons not to use IEMs and go ampless are those who have never done it, or did not do it properly. I read very few posts where people say "I'm so happy we ditched our IEM set up and went back ..."

I'll say it, "I'm so happy (I) ditched (my) IEM set up and went back..."

Just like most things in life and live music, what works for some doesn't always work for all.

 

[RoaDan]

So the popular adage goes with age comes lighter gear. I turn 65 next month, what is wrong with me? View attachment 5366754 I took this out last weekend. It was a beautiful outdoor gig. I did it partly to prove to myself that I could still load and unload it. It was awesome! We recently upgraded our PA from passive sub/mains to a LD linear array system. The sad thing is that I now have a music room full of amps that I no longer need. We’re on IEMs so we’ll be amp-less on stage. I was using various amps to help fill in the low mids and low end depending on the venue. With the frequency response and power of the new system, it’s not required even at big outdoor venues. I’ll hold onto my stuff for awhile and rotate them as practice amps. From now on, just DI from the pedal board!

I am 69, have been playing bass (along with a few other instruments) for more than 55 years and I hope to never go the IEM route. I tried to do it at my church and it ended my gigging there. I lug two 4-10 cabs along with everything else needed to gigs and rehearsals. I might downsize my rig to one of my combo's on occasion but IEM's take far too much control away from me after spending too many years and far too much money buying the gear I need to create the sound I want. Leaving that to the FOH person seems iffy at best... but if it works for you... all the better!