LDS 112 Coax SuperLight

[tombowlus]

Hey guys! I just picked up my mega compact 112 from Don at LDS. I've only played it a little bit, but wanted to post up since it's quite a unique cab.

I asked Don to build the smallest, lightest 112 possible that would still be usable for small jazz/folk type gigs... i.e., to play with an acoustic piano or acoustic guitar, etc.

Since I love the EpifaniUL tone profile, I of course chose a wonderful B&C driver. Since I wanted the size very small, I went with a B&C Neo Coax. This driver is quite expensive, but handles 300 watts and is featherweight. Going coax allowed Don to design a very small footprint cab, similar to the Bag End SD15x cab. The rear port also helps keep the size down.

Here's a picture with Don himself at his 'final set-up' work bench (as always, don't let the blue baffle scare you... it's very subtle, but the flash makes it screaming blue!). For comparison, here's the spec's versus the Epifani 112UL:

Epifani 112UL 16.5 by 19.5 by 16, 300 watts, 30 pounds
LDS 112 16 by 14 by 16, 300 watts, 26 pounds

One of the reasons this cab is so light is that Don finally found a source of super lightweight wood, similar to the wonderful stuff that Epifani uses. The cab has Don's wonderful spray on covering and a nice tilt back handle on the bottom.

The cab sounds very similar to the Epi112UL... not quite the low end due to the smaller box, but a surprising amount. This cab, IME sits between a 110UL and a 112UL to my ear... about the size and weight of a 110, but closer to the low end of a 112... PERFECT!!!

The B&C Coax tweeter is very smooth... maybe even smoother than the wonderful Epifani circuit.

Thanks Don!

Sounds 'wonderful', Ken!!!

 

[greenboy]

Here's an amazing 8" coax that'll match up very well with many woofers to make a compact high-SPL extended-range three-way cab.

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[J Posega]

Good choice on the LDS! I've got a really compact 3-way neo 1x12" with a 4 or 5" mid and tweeter. Weighs maybe 36 lbs.

 

[Vic]

I'm REALLY interested in that coax 15"!!!!

 

[Lemon]

I tryed the S15 plus S15 Coax and im not really sure that thing does
103 dB I doubt it.

If its 2 Speakers and 4 ohms you should get 109 dB
if one does 103 @ 4 ohms.
It didnt seem loud like that that though.

It soundet really clear and also really good typical Coax sound.
Tuning is a little to high for my taste though. just a bit lower would do it.

By the way 97dB isnt all that bad for a 15,
often 15" wich make bass are less loud.

This BMS driver is rated 97 dB sensitivity 1W/1m. One would need a reasonably powerful amp to push it.

That's the beauty of the Bag End S15X-D- it may not be the lightest or the lowest, but it is small, and quite loud with just a nominal amount of watts. (103 dB sensitivity 1W/1m)

Also for consideration- There is the Eden CX-110 coax cab that is tiny and very lightweight, 98 dB, sounds great, goes low, handles 200 watts with ease. And it's a lot less expensive new than the BMS/LDS custom cab would be. So other than not being a 15", and not handling the wattage the BMS would, it has most all the same attributes desired.

 

[Lemon]

Did you ever have a look at the crossover ?
there are most likely a couple of resistors on there....

I dont think the bass driver is as loud as the horn in there.
but it sounds really seemless and much better than any other
usual combination with 4*10" plus horn or 15" with horn.

We've discussed some of this about the Bag End cabs previously. How much of a problem is presented by the omission of an attenuator depends on the bass and amp tone controls you have available. Any player with more than very basic high frequencies controls can roll off the highs, if needed, without needing to do so on the cabinet itself. The highs on the S15X-D are present, but not prominent- they are well-balanced because the main driver is so efficient. It's not like the old 2x10 designs with a Foster horn- those cabs HAD to have an attenuator because the horn was considerably louder than the low drivers.

Alex and KJung- I'm not arguing against the BMS/LDS design at all. Having someone like Don Oatman doing these custom cabs gives the modern player a lot of choices and the ability to get a cabinet far removed from the majority of companies' products. I'm looking forward to reading more about these LDS cabs.

 

[seamonkey]

I think there's a coax in my future. I'm glad to see the typical bass cab thing go out the door as more full range designs take over. Less bass specific and more just SR based instead. This should help keep the prices under control, more spec respect, and generally higher engineered cabinets.

 

[greenboy]

I dont think the bass driver is as loud as the horn in there. but it sounds really seemless and much better than any other usual combination with 4*10" plus horn or 15" with horn.

My experience with coaxes ever since the Tannoy Gold near/mid-field studio monitor days (or the JBL Urei big boys) is that they sound more coherent and cohesive than non-coax monitors of the same woofer size - even when the non-coax one might have a flatter frequency plot. But look at (or hear) the crossover-region band - a lot of the anomolies that get blamed on passive crossovers are also exacerbated by having two drivers, two point sources, making the same frequencies... smearing, lobing, messing the phasing and polar response up more.

 

[jobu3]

Just as soon as I can justify it one way or the other, I'm going to have Don build me a couple of cabs. My mind is already boiling over some of the possibilties...

 

[neptoon]

man, these lds cabs look super sweet, but something tells me that i'm way too dumb to have any input regarding the building of a custom cab...i've been thinking about it, though...i gotta get with that guy...i've got a sound in my mind, and i have no idea what rig i should go with to achieve it

 

[greenboy]

man, these lds cabs look super sweet, but something tells me that i'm way too dumb to have any input regarding the building of a custom cab...i've been thinking about it, though...i gotta get with that guy...i've got a sound in my mind, and i have no idea what rig i should go with to achieve it

That's the good thing about Don: he'll actually steer you in the right direction. Some of the more questionable designs you might see of his are because the customer thought they knew more than they did, and wouldn't heed advice/expertise.

 

[Toasted]

Wow, looks great

 

[neptoon]

That's the good thing about Don: he'll actually steer you in the right direction. Some of the more questionable designs you might see of his are because the customer thought they knew more than they did, and wouldn't heed advice/expertise.

yeah, i would never assume that i knew more than a guy that's an expert at what he does...me, i work on missiles and play bass for fun

 

[jasonbraatz]

yeah, i would never assume that i knew more than a guy that's an expert at what he does...me, i work on missiles and play bass for fun

Listen man what you need to do is just bolt like 4 missiles together and cover them with mirrors so when they're up in the sky you can't tell what they are!

Trust me dude I've watched 24 I know how this stuff works.

 

[Ric Vice]

KJung-
That is very cool. I myself have been thinking about getting an LDS 1x12. I'm very interested to hear all about it! Will you be playing upright through it all?

Nathan,
Now unless Ken's really been keeping secrets from me he dosen't actually play upright. Of course, it dosen't really matter because he has such tasty chops on his e basses. Hopefully he'll visit St. Louis sometime in the future, and bring it along with him. Ken told me about this cabinet three weeks ago. Don really builds nice stuff dosen't he. I have a LDS 2X8 3way that I use for my outdoor gigs on upright. It sounds great.

Ric

 

[natbers78]

Well if you do get to try it out, I'm really interested as to what you think. I play upright 99% of the time and am torn between one big, juicy 4ohm 1x12 with high power handling (for my Woods) or a couple of 8ohm Bergie 12's. Decisions, decisions...

 

[Ric Vice]

man, these lds cabs look super sweet, but something tells me that i'm way too dumb to have any input regarding the building of a custom cab...i've been thinking about it, though...i gotta get with that guy...i've got a sound in my mind, and i have no idea what rig i should go with to achieve it

Neptoon,
I remember when I had the 2X8 three way built Don was very good about all the possible options for components but my cabinet was actually designed by Don and MacMarkt. Don just suggested a different
tweeter to mellow it out for DB and it worked like a charm. Greenboy is right about listening to Don because the options on one of his cabinets are endless. Here are some examples.

Road Spray Finish or Carpet on the Cabinet
Detachable Cart?
Side Mounted Tweeter and Midrange Controls
Underside Surface Mount Handle to Elevate the Cabinet
Strap Handle or Retractable Road Handles
Graduated Front Rubber Cabinet Feet that tilt the cab upward
Mello or Agressive Tweeter
Speaker Placement within the cabinet.
4 0r 8 ohm

Ric

 

[Lemon]

Yeah I know the tech stuff....
Coax sounds better, given the cossover is correctly made.

Its the point source wich is most obvious to the ears.
lots of horns used in regular cabs are cheap and crossed at way to high frequencys, that doesnt help to get a seamless sound.

My experience with coaxes ever since the Tannoy Gold near/mid-field studio monitor days (or the JBL Urei big boys) is that they sound more coherent and cohesive than non-coax monitors of the same woofer size - even when the non-coax one might have a flatter frequency plot. But look at (or hear) the crossover-region band - a lot of the anomolies that get blamed on passive crossovers are also exacerbated by having two drivers, two point sources, making the same frequencies... smearing, lobing, messing the phasing and polar response up more.

 

[Ric Vice]

Well if you do get to try it out, I'm really interested as to what you think. I play upright 99% of the time and am torn between one big, juicy 4ohm 1x12 with high power handling (for my Woods) or a couple of 8ohm Bergie 12's. Decisions, decisions...

Nathan,
I'm pretty sure that Ken just sold his Bergie 210. So you might want
to ask him why. If I remember correctly, he just couldn't get it to to what he wanted. I do know that he has a Euphonic Audio NL 210 in his future, if that's any help. He's a great judge of cabinet's and he tries them out for a long time before he passed judgment.

Ric

 

[Vic]

Nathan,
I'm pretty sure that Ken just sold his Bergie 210. So you might want
to ask him why. If I remember correctly, he just couldn't get it to to what he wanted. I do know that he has a Euphonic Audio NL 210 in his future, if that's any help. He's a great judge of cabinet's and he tries them out for a long time before he passed judgment.

Ric

Ken had his Woods amp over at my house not too long ago, and it sounded fantastic through my NL-210's, which is a big part of the reason he's getting one to check out, BUT, if you ask him what his all time favorite cab is, it's the Epifani UL410 by a pretty fair margin. In fact, in general, he's a big Epifani UL fan, including the 110's and 112's.