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Double Bass LDS 1x8 and 2x8 3ways vs. Epi UL110
- Thread starter macmrkt
- Start date
When we have done side by side comparisons of the Wizzy,
Epi 110UL, Berg ht112, acme b1, with different players and
basses, using a Focus 1, the results have been almost the
same every time.
The Acme is boomy with less upper mid articulation, but
will get really loud. (with lots o power)
The wizzy has a certain woodyness and bark, but no one
has liked it as much as any of the others.
The epi 110UL is very light weight and even sounding, but
just a touch harsh on the highs unless you turn the horn
down a bit.
For tone, everyone has liked the Berg ht112 the most, by
a fair amount. Warm, punchy, and balanced. the horn is
sweet as sugar. The down side is the weight.
I've been using the Epi 110UL for many upright gigs and it
seems to be working out just fine. When the situation
allows, I bring the Berg. The Epi gets very loud for its size.
Epi 110UL, Berg ht112, acme b1, with different players and
basses, using a Focus 1, the results have been almost the
same every time.
The Acme is boomy with less upper mid articulation, but
will get really loud. (with lots o power)
The wizzy has a certain woodyness and bark, but no one
has liked it as much as any of the others.
The epi 110UL is very light weight and even sounding, but
just a touch harsh on the highs unless you turn the horn
down a bit.
For tone, everyone has liked the Berg ht112 the most, by
a fair amount. Warm, punchy, and balanced. the horn is
sweet as sugar. The down side is the weight.
I've been using the Epi 110UL for many upright gigs and it
seems to be working out just fine. When the situation
allows, I bring the Berg. The Epi gets very loud for its size.
Finally, a kindred soul on the Acme and Wizzy. I think the Wizzy is what they made it out to be - a new generation Ampeg B15. And that has a place - but hifi accuracy is not it. I definately thought the LDS to be a step up from the Acme and Wizzy, with the Epi a step up from that. I'm just getting into 1x12's again, so I will have to try a Bergie after I get used to the Epi 110 and 112 ULs. I hope that IP112 comes soon!
- Apr 3, 2003
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OK, I'm trying not to get my hopes too high here but thanks for all the info. I will give it a try next week hopefully.
macmrkt said:
I've never really been a fan of 12's. I have the Epi 112UL.
Its a very nice box for electric. Actually, at 30lbs, it kicks
butt. I just haven't found it to be my sound on upright.
Too big and woofy without enough mid, upper mid punch.
The Berg is a whole other animal. Maybe its the small box,
or type of horn, but the Berg is great for upright bass.
Again, as much as I love the EA guys, nobody liked the
Wizzy much in side by side comparisons.
- Apr 3, 2003
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B String said:
Speak for yourself!
While I am a big fan of the HT112, I do love the Wizzy as well.Of course, I do understand that of your group of listeners, the Wizzy was not much cared for. I just think that saying "nobody like the Wizzy much" may be an overly broad statement.
Tom.
- Apr 3, 2003
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BTW, here's a link to a 1x10/1x8 shootout that I did recently (using BG only, though):
1x10/1x8 Shootout
1x10/1x8 Shootout
Hi Tom... man all your info is so useful. Thanks so much for sharing it with all of us. Is there any way we can get you to perform the same shootout with your DB for us guys on the DB side? Would be good to know if you did/didn't get the same results. I'm totally looking forward to your 1x12/2x8 shootout.
- Apr 3, 2003
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hdiddy said:
Thank you for your kind words! I really do enjoy this stuff.
My Kay is actually hidden away behind all that gear right now! But if possible, I will try to get it out (along with either the iAMP or WWU) and perform an "upright reality check" with some of these cabs.Tom.
macmrkt and tombowlus,
Thanks for your very interesting reviews,
the Epi 110UL seems to be a very good ''light gear'' solution. After reading this thread I ordered one, i'll have it maybe in a week. I am not searching the #1 hi-fi cab in the world, just a light cab with decent and acceptable sound for DB.
Of course, i'll post my impressions, after one or two gigs.
I'm also interesting for the Epi 112UL, maybe it will be my next step after one month.
Thanks for your very interesting reviews,
the Epi 110UL seems to be a very good ''light gear'' solution. After reading this thread I ordered one, i'll have it maybe in a week. I am not searching the #1 hi-fi cab in the world, just a light cab with decent and acceptable sound for DB.
Of course, i'll post my impressions, after one or two gigs.
I'm also interesting for the Epi 112UL, maybe it will be my next step after one month.
It's this i want too! I hope it will also work just fine for me.B String said:
tombowlus said:Speak for yourself!
Of course, I do understand that of your group of listeners, the Wizzy was not much cared for. I just think that saying "nobody like the Wizzy much" may be an overly broad statement.
Tom.
Sorry if my comments were not clear. What I meant was....
Of the five or six bassists who listened to these boxes side
by side, none of these people like the Wizzy as much as
any of the other boxes. Some of the basses had a Realist,
some had Underwood, one had a Full Circle, one had a Wilson.
I'm not saying the Wizzy sucks, I'm only saying that for me
and these other somewhat accomplished musicians the
Wizzy wasn't what they were looking for. BUT! I'm still a
big EA fan.
- Apr 3, 2003
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I'm with B String on the 112UL - a bit too full for DB. I did quick demos last night of the 112UL vs. 110UL - and the 110UL was preferred with DB. On BG, the full, warm tone of the 12 could be good, especially on a larger stage. Note - this was a quick test at low volumes. I also noticed how the Epifani gear is changing my opinion of my amps...the WW is sounding better than the others...
- Apr 3, 2003
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macmrkt said:
Woods amps and Epifani cabs definitely go together, in my book. The Mesa Walkabout also seems to sound unusually good with them.
Tom.
Yesterday I received my Epi T-110UL or UL110 or whatever we want to call it. Which brings me to an important question. How does one pronounce "Epifani?" Is it like "epiphany" or is it like "epi-FAN-i?"
Anyway, I only had time to play for about 30 minutes with it but out of the box it was obviously way more to my tastes than the LDS 3-way 1x8 or B-1. All test was using the Focus 2, Vektor, and LR Baggs GigPro. A much flatter and smoother response than the LDS and not boomy or muddy at any point regardless of volume. Very consistent throughout the range.
Build quality seems very good although one of the hard plastic stackable corner protectors was not correctly aligned which is a bit annoying.
I'd like to hear it with a mic but right now I only have a small-diaphragm Oktava MC-012. I'm going to get a Audix D-4 and see how that works with it.
At the moment, the best way to sum up my feelings about the Epi sound are "accurate" and "smooth." The sound is detailed with just a hint of warmth and never harsh. With this cab, I don't think I will even bother looking at the NM-208 if and when it comes out. At 22 lbs, anything at the same weight yet alone heavier would have to be a lot better to make me change cabs. Now if someone could come up with the same sound in a smaller and lighter package that would be interesting!
The one thing the UL110 lacks is a lot of volume but it's enough for me. I don't think it's as loud as the LDS but the sound of the LDS 3-way 1x8 cuts right through in the mix so the real test for the UL110 is in a gig situation. Unfortunately I only have one amplified gig this week (and two unamplified which gives you an idea of how much I am using an amp now).
Anyway, I only had time to play for about 30 minutes with it but out of the box it was obviously way more to my tastes than the LDS 3-way 1x8 or B-1. All test was using the Focus 2, Vektor, and LR Baggs GigPro. A much flatter and smoother response than the LDS and not boomy or muddy at any point regardless of volume. Very consistent throughout the range.
Build quality seems very good although one of the hard plastic stackable corner protectors was not correctly aligned which is a bit annoying.
I'd like to hear it with a mic but right now I only have a small-diaphragm Oktava MC-012. I'm going to get a Audix D-4 and see how that works with it.
At the moment, the best way to sum up my feelings about the Epi sound are "accurate" and "smooth." The sound is detailed with just a hint of warmth and never harsh. With this cab, I don't think I will even bother looking at the NM-208 if and when it comes out. At 22 lbs, anything at the same weight yet alone heavier would have to be a lot better to make me change cabs. Now if someone could come up with the same sound in a smaller and lighter package that would be interesting!
The one thing the UL110 lacks is a lot of volume but it's enough for me. I don't think it's as loud as the LDS but the sound of the LDS 3-way 1x8 cuts right through in the mix so the real test for the UL110 is in a gig situation. Unfortunately I only have one amplified gig this week (and two unamplified which gives you an idea of how much I am using an amp now).
Well Adrian you sure are a trip. I can't figure out what you are looking for. Seems like an overview...
After 3 months gigging with the LDS 1x8 and the last month or so on a PA stand, I am still so happy with the sound. Where as I have had warmer sounding cabs, the LDS fits the bill for me. I play in all these different bands always amped (with just the Vektor into the gigpro into WW100m) and it cuts and gives me a sound whose center and definition I hear really comfortably when I am playing. When I get 10' or 20' out from the cab (with someone else playing the axe) the sound is focused and warm and right where I want it in the mix.
I don't quite get all the hair splitting, maybe my ears are not subtle enough or something...but I dont get why you would sell the AMT to get an Epi? Unless it is fetishism (nothing wrong there...) Seems like you had a set up that was closing in on perfect, and now its all unsettled again? Course I'm not complaining, you seem to do a lot of R+D for the board here.....
After 3 months gigging with the LDS 1x8 and the last month or so on a PA stand, I am still so happy with the sound. Where as I have had warmer sounding cabs, the LDS fits the bill for me. I play in all these different bands always amped (with just the Vektor into the gigpro into WW100m) and it cuts and gives me a sound whose center and definition I hear really comfortably when I am playing. When I get 10' or 20' out from the cab (with someone else playing the axe) the sound is focused and warm and right where I want it in the mix.
I don't quite get all the hair splitting, maybe my ears are not subtle enough or something...but I dont get why you would sell the AMT to get an Epi? Unless it is fetishism (nothing wrong there...) Seems like you had a set up that was closing in on perfect, and now its all unsettled again? Course I'm not complaining, you seem to do a lot of R+D for the board here.....
Adrian,
It's ep-i-FAN-i, the last name of the owner. It is less efficient than the LDS 1x8 or 2x8. Needs more power. It cuts through the mix as well as the LDS 3ways, but retains a more even and smoother sound. And the lowest notes of the bass are truer and correctly produced with less chuffing versus the 1x8. Can't comment on super high volumes, but for up to small to small/medium clubs, the 110 or 112 is fine for me. I have the 110 at 20lbs and the 112 at 29 lbs. The build quality is good, but may be a tad rushed in places. It produces different results with the heads I've been using than the LDS too. Note: this cabinet has to be off the floor - and it might need to be off the floor by about 18" or even more in some rooms. Glad we're on the same page on this one.
It's ep-i-FAN-i, the last name of the owner. It is less efficient than the LDS 1x8 or 2x8. Needs more power. It cuts through the mix as well as the LDS 3ways, but retains a more even and smoother sound. And the lowest notes of the bass are truer and correctly produced with less chuffing versus the 1x8. Can't comment on super high volumes, but for up to small to small/medium clubs, the 110 or 112 is fine for me. I have the 110 at 20lbs and the 112 at 29 lbs. The build quality is good, but may be a tad rushed in places. It produces different results with the heads I've been using than the LDS too. Note: this cabinet has to be off the floor - and it might need to be off the floor by about 18" or even more in some rooms. Glad we're on the same page on this one.
Believe me, Piro, ain't no fetishism here. This crapping around takes a lot of time and money and I've got better things to do except that I care alot about the sound and I want minimum hassles and not to have to break my back carrying gear.
Selling the AMT has nothing to do with getting the Epi. I sold the AMT because I am trying to simplify my setup and because I'm playing alot without an amp (best gear is no gear at all) and at the volumes I need an amp, I still want a great sound but I am less fussed about getting the exact sound. There are everyday gigs and then there are concert situations when I want exactly my sound and especially all the nuances of gut. For those situations I will use a mic on a stand.
The LDS has always been harsh to me from the beginning. Yes the strong mid-range is useful for cutting through in really high volume situations but I rarely play those and I think the Epi may do fine for me. I certainly much prefer it's sound to the LDS any time. And the LDS sounded crap to me with any microphone.
What am I looking for? Natural sound reproduction in the smallest, lightest package with the minimum hassle for transportation, setup and teardown. That's the criteria given my sound and my gigs most of which are either trio things in quiet to moderately loud situations (where I don't use an amp at all) to really loud situations (where I am forced to use an amp) and then concerts where I am playing in anything from a trio to a 20-piece band and the room is dead quiet and the acoustics of the room are usually excellent (but not always).
Seems pretty simple to me.
Selling the AMT has nothing to do with getting the Epi. I sold the AMT because I am trying to simplify my setup and because I'm playing alot without an amp (best gear is no gear at all) and at the volumes I need an amp, I still want a great sound but I am less fussed about getting the exact sound. There are everyday gigs and then there are concert situations when I want exactly my sound and especially all the nuances of gut. For those situations I will use a mic on a stand.
The LDS has always been harsh to me from the beginning. Yes the strong mid-range is useful for cutting through in really high volume situations but I rarely play those and I think the Epi may do fine for me. I certainly much prefer it's sound to the LDS any time. And the LDS sounded crap to me with any microphone.
What am I looking for? Natural sound reproduction in the smallest, lightest package with the minimum hassle for transportation, setup and teardown. That's the criteria given my sound and my gigs most of which are either trio things in quiet to moderately loud situations (where I don't use an amp at all) to really loud situations (where I am forced to use an amp) and then concerts where I am playing in anything from a trio to a 20-piece band and the room is dead quiet and the acoustics of the room are usually excellent (but not always).
Seems pretty simple to me.
Part of selling the AMT (admittedly the money came in handy but that had nothing to do with buying the Epi - I blame Marty for that ) was the realisation that in return for less hassle with gear (less to carry, less to setup and teardown) I would play more gigs without the amp (in which case I really know I will be getting my sound) or that for higher volume situations, I would not care about getting the exact sound as much. For those situations you might say that I've given up trying to get sound nirvana because I realised that firstly when there is so much background noise, it's a very hard situation to work in and secondly, no one else really cares (certainly the listeners and quite possibly the band too) so why should I bother? With the Vektor I can still get a great sound which IMO is better than most of the electricky sounds I hear from many other guys but it still is not as good as with a mic but then I'll just leave the mic for situations when it really warrants it.
) was the realisation that in return for less hassle with gear (less to carry, less to setup and teardown) I would play more gigs without the amp (in which case I really know I will be getting my sound) or that for higher volume situations, I would not care about getting the exact sound as much. For those situations you might say that I've given up trying to get sound nirvana because I realised that firstly when there is so much background noise, it's a very hard situation to work in and secondly, no one else really cares (certainly the listeners and quite possibly the band too) so why should I bother? With the Vektor I can still get a great sound which IMO is better than most of the electricky sounds I hear from many other guys but it still is not as good as with a mic but then I'll just leave the mic for situations when it really warrants it.
