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Double Bass LDS 1x8 and 2x8 3ways vs. Epi UL110

#22
Ric Vice said:
Without adjoining walls, a single Transmision Line Cabinet has difficulty IMHO, even with lots of avaliable headroom from the amp.
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Ric, would you care to elaborate on this for me a little please?

I do know that when I stick my Wizzy cab in a corner, it sounds much thicker than say placing it where there is no wall behind it. There's a lot of low end behind just about any bass cab, and those reflections off the back wall definitely make a difference to me anyway.

Raising my cab off the floor and putting it up on a chair has the opposite effect and makes the sound "thinner". Sometimes I want that, sometimes I don't. Depends on the room.

But all that's old news. I guess what I'm curious about is why you kinda singled out TL cabinets in particular in your quote. Are they more affected by adjoining walls would you say than a front ported cab, or a sealed cab maybe?

Sorry if I misunderstood what you meant. It's all good pal.
 
#23
bolo said:
Ric, would you care to elaborate on this for me a little please?

I do know that when I stick my Wizzy cab in a corner, it sounds much thicker than say placing it where there is no wall behind it. There's a lot of low end behind just about any bass cab, and those reflections off the back wall definitely make a difference to me anyway.

Raising my cab off the floor and putting it up on a chair has the opposite effect and makes the sound "thinner". Sometimes I want that, sometimes I don't. Depends on the room.

But all that's old news. I guess what I'm curious about is why you kinda singled out TL cabinets in particular in your quote. Are they more affected by adjoining walls would you say than a front ported cab, or a sealed cab maybe?

Sorry if I misunderstood what you meant. It's all good pal.
Click to expand...


I think what Ric is talking about is the fact that if you have a cab that is smaller than what is required for the gig (for example, a single 10 for a moderately loud band outside), coupling the cab to the floor or putting it in a corner can increase the perceived bass response out in the room. This has nothing to do with transmission line cabinets specifically. The transmission line design, from what I understand, is just a different type of porting that allows for small cabinets to be tuned a little lower than normal... it does not make a cab behave differently 'on the gig' than any other ported design.

However, to your point, raising a cab off the floor will in many cases cut the low end projection and extension of the cab... this can be a good thing in a boomy room... this can be a very bad thing with small cabs that are being pushed.
 
#24
KJung said:
I think what Ric is talking about is the fact that if you have a cab that is smaller than what is required for the gig (for example, a single 10 for a moderately loud band outside), coupling the cab to the floor or putting it in a corner can increase the perceived bass response out in the room. This has nothing to do with transmission line cabinets specifically. The transmission line design, from what I understand, is just a different type of porting that allows for small cabinets to be tuned a little lower than normal... it does not make a cab behave differently 'on the gig' than any other ported design.

However, to your point, raising a cab off the floor will in many cases cut the low end projection and extension of the cab... this can be a good thing in a boomy room... this can be a very bad thing with small cabs that are being pushed.
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Excellent points. +1
 
#25
SFreud said:
The transmission line design, from what I understand, is just a different type of porting that allows for small cabinets to be tuned a little lower than normal... it does not make a cab behave differently 'on the gig' than any other ported design.
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I agree with most of your post above, but I do believe that the TL design makes the EA cabs behave very differently from other ported designs, and it's exactly why I like EA stuff so much: because the EA cabs are TL front ported, they don't produce near as much "wall and corner" noise as rear ported cabs, and for this reason, they tend to sound much more similar in different rooms than other cabs - especially those that are rear ported. My Falk Audio 1X8 speakers sound incredible in dry rooms, and god awful in boomy ones. The EA VL108, OTOH, sounds incredible in dry rooms, and still good to very good in boomy ones. That's a big difference in my book! I also find that decoupling from the floor (mine are stand mounted) makes them sound more similar in different environments. YMMV.
 
#26
Chris Fitzgerald said:
I agree with most of your post above, but I do believe that the TL design makes the EA cabs behave very differently from other ported designs, and it's exactly why I like EA stuff so much: because the EA cabs are TL front ported, they don't produce near as much "wall and corner" noise as rear ported cabs, and for this reason, they tend to sound much more similar in different rooms than other cabs - especially those that are rear ported. My Falk Audio 1X8 speakers sound incredible in dry rooms, and god awful in boomy ones. The EA VL108, OTOH, sounds incredible in dry rooms, and still good to very good in boomy ones. That's a big difference in my book! I also find that decoupling from the floor (mine are stand mounted) makes them sound more similar in different environments. YMMV.
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Lot's of discussion on this point over on the EB side from time to time. The fact that the EA's are front ported, from everything I've read, experienced and discussed on TB, makes absolutely no difference, due to the very low tuning of the cab and the omnidirectionality of the frequencies leaving the port. The same thing can be said for the Acme's, which are not transmission line design but achieve their very low roll-off by other methods. Andy puts his Acme ports in the front, back, side, etc. depending on the space available in the design, and he has very compelling data to show that for these low-rolloff cabs, port placement is a moot point. I owned his rear ported B210's and his side ported B110's and found these cab to react and sound very similar in a wide variety of room situations. Also, I think the potential new EA2x8 and their current 4x10 use side ports.

However.... a cabinet like the very widely used BagEnd sd15, that is tuned very high, and basically is almost just an open-back cab, does have some directional sound coming out of the port, and therefore is very highly impacted by placement versus other cabs. You want to hear something ugly, use one of those outside with nothing behind it!

Finally, we are not discussing the general differences in sound here (EA's sound different than Acme's which sound different from Epi's,. etc.), but if there is something specific to the transmission line design that makes those cabs behave differently from other cabs regarding room placement. Except for the high roll off rear port cabs, I think most cabs will react similarly to coupling, corners, open spaces, etc.

PS I'm not an EE, and didn't even stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night... so my understanding of all this is as a 'fanatical layman' :D I look forward to any corrections regarding the above!
 
#27
bolo said:
Ric, would you care to elaborate on this for me a little please?

I do know that when I stick my Wizzy cab in a corner, it sounds much thicker than say placing it where there is no wall behind it. There's a lot of low end behind just about any bass cab, and those reflections off the back wall definitely make a difference to me anyway.

Raising my cab off the floor and putting it up on a chair has the opposite effect and makes the sound "thinner". Sometimes I want that, sometimes I don't. Depends on the room.

But all that's old news. I guess what I'm curious about is why you kinda singled out TL cabinets in particular in your quote. Are they more affected by adjoining walls would you say than a front ported cab, or a sealed cab maybe?

Sorry if I misunderstood what you meant. It's all good pal.
Click to expand...

Bolo,
After several PM's with wiser TB'ers it looks like the size of the cabinet was the real culprit in my particular situation and not the Transmission Line Design. Problem is, that until just recently I didn't own anything but EA VL 108's and EA VL 110's so I was speaking from a pretty narrow perspective. They are power hungry little monsters though.

Ric
 
#28
KARLMARX - it's all good. I was just relating my own experiences as a tone obsessed OCD gear whore who has spent way too many hours imitating MAYOR MACMARKET's methodology without the extensive documentation. The two rear ported cabs I've had which were the worst I've ever dealt with in terms of souding different in different rooms were the Falk 8's and a Bag End 15, which drove me nuts until I pinpointed what was going on. And don't worry - I can't even SPELL "electrical engineer". :)
 
#32
Alright, alright, enough, enough. I ordered a damn Epi UL-110. I should have it next week. Are you happy now Marty?

:)

Seriously, I was looking at Senator Bowlus' blog today. I've been there before but I still nearly wet my pants looking at the photos of all the gear. I refuse to post here anymore until Tom explains how his wife and his neighbours put up with his gear testing.
 
#33
Adrian Cho said:
I refuse to post here anymore until Tom explains how his wife and his neighbours put up with his gear testing.
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Well, as for the wife (and kids!) I do it when they are out of the house. The neighbors? Well, they just get to suffer! :D Actually, they are pretty cool about it. This past summer, we played an outdoor gig that was probably two miles or more up river from my house (we played right by the river) and my neighbors told me that they could hear us playing quite clearly! D'oh! We didn't stop till about 3:30AM! :eek:

Tom.
 
#37
So here's what worries me about this cab. Quoting Tombowlus from one of his posts:

The Epifani was the most full-sounding cab, with a pleasing roundness to it. It was not as scalpel-precise as the Hevos, nor as well balanced, tonally, as the VL-110. It does have a certain amount of midrange scoop, but nothing dramatic. Whereas the Hevos and the EA seem to be shooting for a very uncolored sound, the T-110UL does have the "Epifani sound", which I don't necessarily view as a bad thing. It is slightly more "old school" sounding, but with that beautiful silky Epi high end. The T-110UL does the low B well at lower volumes, but I know from experience that it doesn't like to be pushed hard on the low B when you turn it up a bit. It tends to get a bit boomy and not very controlled sounding.
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I guess what I'm asking here is how you guys would compare the Epi UL-110 to the Acme B-1. My experience with the B-1 was that the sound was very nice at low volumes (and definitely very old school) but got too boomy and muddy at higher volumes. With the Epi, is this problem just in the lowest notes?
 
#39
Again, I'm a low volume guy comparitively, but I find the Epi to be very accurate - my most important criteria. This is going on memory, but my LDS 1x8 was more accurate than the VL110 or Acme B1's. The Epi beats the LDS 1x8 and is close to the 2x8. But again, I'm at lower volumes then these guys (at least so far). I liked the 1x8 eventhough Adrian didn't, exactly for the reason that it cut through the band. The Epi seems to have that accuracy I crave, but I believe without the edge that shows up on the 1x8 sometimes.
 
#40
Adrian Cho said:
I guess what I'm asking here is how you guys would compare the Epi UL-110 to the Acme B-1. My experience with the B-1 was that the sound was very nice at low volumes (and definitely very old school) but got too boomy and muddy at higher volumes. With the Epi, is this problem just in the lowest notes?
Click to expand...

The Epi T-110UL (which I believe is the same as the UL110) sounds very nice and full at low to mid volumes. When you really start to push it (and I'm talking serious volume, here!), the low end first kind of rolls off (the mids and highs keep getting louder, but the lows do not). If you push beyond this point, you can start to overload the woofer, and things get ugly. But, you still get a good deal of volume out of it, and from anything other than these loudest volume settings (where I turn to the VL-110, if need be), the T-110UL is my current reigning champ of the 1x10's. If you move up to a 2x8, then my Patterson Audio 2x8's and VL-208 will probably give it a real run for its money, but both of them are a good bit larger and heavier that the little Epi.

Also, to my ears, unless you are doing a lot of work on a low B, I prefer the T-110UL to the Low B-1. The Epifani cab is more clear sounding (more upper midrange presence) and not as "old school." Plus, it tends to roll off low end first, before getting boomy and uncontrolled, so you know when to back off. It does have its limits, though. Just keep that in mind.

Tom.
 

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