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LDS Sealed 15/8

#61
kringle77 said:
After a few of you guys were talking about the definimax 4015lf driver, I decided to look at it more closely. I definitely made the right choice with the delta 3015lfa for my tonal goals 100%. But, if I were to ever add a second cab, it would be a 4015lf loaded into a sealed 1.7cu.ft cab which would be smaller but weigh about the same as my current one. Man, that would be a killer little "sub" type cab for this 15/8. The woofer chamber in the 15/8 is 1.4cu.ft I think so, I probably could load a 4015 in there but, the growl wouldn't be there. A sealed 4015lf cab would be "THE" reggea cab! That little stack would be considered the sealed, going for a tone fearful cab for guys like me.
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If you are satisfied with the tone of that cab just add the second one if you ever want more! Results of mixing different can never be predicted.. Definimax 4015lf is very versatile driver and it wouldn´t be bad putting it into versatile cab.
If you tune 2cu ft cab to 35 hz you will gain 3db sensitivity down low while having that same roll of as the sealed cab. If you use tube ports and port plugs a la thunderchild 12 you can have the best of both worlds.
 
#62
Thanks for the advise but, Im keeping things sealed from now on. I've played so many gigs on so many different rigs and can say with confidence that the best results, for me, has always been with sealed cabs. They are more consistant from room to room, I don't need extra deep lows, and they just plain feel better under my fingers. No, I definitely think I would have good results mixing the two woofers, sealed. I know what works for me at this point and I've spent enough money chasing "correct" and "right". What I use now is right and Im happy. Using the 3015lf as a small sealed sub would be great if I wanted to use this LDS 158 cab with my very loud band live with no pa support. I would need a second cab so that I didn't constantly push the 158 too loud.
 
#63
This is interesting discussion. I already have the neo Emenence 15" drivers, mids, and crossovers for my upcoming pair of fEARful 15/6 builds. I haven't bought the plywood yet, but any day now.

Recently, I've had some talks with Jonathan about ferrite drivers in sealed cab. Seems like the idea is worth merit as people do speak highly about the Berg NV412. Is a midrange really necessary? if you cross the woofer, won't you miss the frequencies with the nice distortion as you approach cone breakup on the woofer?
 
#64
Coolhandjjl said:
This is interesting discussion. I already have the neo Emenence 15" drivers, mids, and crossovers for my upcoming pair of fEARful 15/6 builds. I haven't bought the plywood yet, but any day now.

Recently, I've had some talks with Jonathan about ferrite drivers in sealed cab. Seems like the idea is worth merit as people do speak highly about the Berg NV412. Is a midrange really necessary? if you cross the woofer, won't you miss the frequencies with the nice distortion as you approach cone breakup on the woofer?
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That entirely depends on the particular woofer and mid used, and what your crossover points and slopes are.
 
#65
My woofer is run full range on purpose so that I can get the growl. The mid is used for extra top end and dispersion and is producing a cleaner top end since it isn't trying to replicate the whole spectrum of frequencies. That clean top end mixes nicely with the woofers distorted top end. Thats really the trick for the sound I like.

The mod8 jensen mid was used precisely because it sounds a bit like the mod10 I used in iun my 8x10 cab. It's a very guitar amp sounding top and high mids. I've always been after the bass played through a fender twin reverb combo amp sound. No bass cab does that and you really can't play a fender reverb live and expect to have any punch once you get more than 6ft. from the amp. This cab or my modded 8x10 and 6x10 get me that.

As I said, that 4015lf would make a great sub cab or a clean sounding cab with an added mid but, I don't think you would get any growl from it because it just doesn't have the top end. Even if you ran it full range, I don't think it would have much.
 
#67
Yup, woofer full range for the growl. The mid cover 800hz on up and it would be 4ohms from 800hz on up.....well, actually you would have to look up the impedance curves for both drivers in that frequency range. The impedance gets higher as frequency increases so, it probably not 4 ohms in reality. It's still considered an 8 ohm cab I would say and there probably wouldn't be any issue adding a second.

Sometime when Im bored, I may open up the cab and run it fully crossed over (I have that option) but, I know that it will just be cleaner and smoother sounding but still tight and punchy. This mid has a big dip around 800hz so, the sound would be alittle scooped in that area, and therefor sound smooth, probably great for slap.
 
#68
This makes me wonder about a 4ohm single cab with Kringle's build on top of a separate sealed chamber housing a 4015lf crossed over a little lower. Perhaps it would add more low-mid punch and better response for a 5-string, but still retain the cone break-up that makes the NV610 so wonderful.

Or would mixing those drivers not yield good results? Potentially better to have two of the Delta 15's?

Any thoughts?
 
#69
Jefe said:
This makes me wonder about a 4ohm single cab with Kringle's build on top of a separate sealed chamber housing a 4015lf crossed over a little lower. Perhaps it would add more low-mid punch and better response for a 5-string, but still retain the cone break-up that makes the NV610 so wonderful.

Or would mixing those drivers not yield good results? Potentially better to have two of the Delta 15's?

Any thoughts?
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That would end up like flawed 8 Ohm cab. If you want 4 ohm cab use two deltas.
 
#70
My concern with adding another driver or second cab would be with the impedance dropping too low. With 2 ohm stable tube heads I don't believe it would be anything to worry about, but for those of us running heads like the streamliner it might cause issues. According to the impedance curves, at 800hz the LFA is at 9 ohms and the mod is at 8 ohms translating into just over 4 ohm total impedance, at least thats how I read it. Is there another factor to consider?
 
#71
Originally Posted by kringle77 >
As I said, that 4015lf would make a great sub cab or a clean sounding cab with an added mid but, I don't think you would get any growl from it because it just doesn't have the top end. Even if you ran it full range, I don't think it would have much.
Click to expand...

+1 I used Eminence Designer to look at the Delta-15LFA and Definimax 4015LF with sealed 1.4 and 1.7 ft3 boxes. They are different animals and I don't think they would be interchangeable for this application. The Delta-15LFA is more of a full range driver with full on-axis response to a little over 3kHz while the Definimax 4015LF is a true woofer which can deliver substantially more low end power (500w displacement limit and lower F3) but weighs 10.5 lbs more and has little useful response past 1kHz. It seems that mid support from the 15 between 1-3 kHz which provides that nice grind is a key piece of this sealed 15/8 mojo and the Definimax 4015LF doesn't have it. Engaging the 800 Hz low pass on the Delta-15LFA to hear it's impact on the mid voicing would answer a lot on this.

This Delta-15LFA/Jensen MOD8-20 really seem to hit the mark for that classic sealed 810 sound in a small box. Kudos! It's satisfying when an idea works out well. The only thing I think you'd have to be careful with is hitting this box with too much wattage under 80 Hz. Seems like it would be displacement limited somewhere around 325 watts but I'll bet a pair of these would sound wonderful with a GB Streamliner 900. :eek:
 
#72
3rdcurve said:
My concern with adding another driver or second cab would be with the impedance dropping too low. With 2 ohm stable tube heads I don't believe it would be anything to worry about, but for those of us running heads like the streamliner it might cause issues. According to the impedance curves, at 800hz the LFA is at 9 ohms and the mod is at 8 ohms translating into just over 4 ohm total impedance, at least thats how I read it. Is there another factor to consider?
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If you use a true 2-way crossover, the cab will be a nominal 8ohms throughout. If you filter one driver and not the other, it'll be nominal 4ohms in the bandwidth where they overlap, 8ohms where they don't.
 
#73
will33 said:
If you use a true 2-way crossover, the cab will be a nominal 8ohms throughout. If you filter one driver and not the other, it'll be nominal 4ohms in the bandwidth where they overlap, 8ohms where they don't.
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Exactly, which means pairing two cabs together would give you a band between 800-3k hz that could put you in the danger zone.

Although........

If you added a 4015 crossed over below 800 you should be safe due to the mid and 4015 never crossing frequencies.
 
#74
3rdcurve said:
Exactly, which means pairing two cabs together would give you a band between 800-3k hz that could put you in the danger zone.

Although........

If you added a 4015 crossed over below 800 you should be safe due to the mid and 4015 never crossing frequencies.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Pinched between an SS amp that doesn't want nominal impedance below 4 ohms, and a tube amp that doesn't want it above that.
 
#75
Ok, I tried the cab out using the full crossover. It sounded great but, pretty much exactly how I thought. Cleaner. Alittle mid scooped around 800-2khz, which was actually most likely closer to flat than when I run the woofer full and get a bump in that range. Up close I like it either way but at a distance alittle bit of gig wisdom kicks it. At a medium volume and a distance of roughly 20ft away the fully crossed over mod sounded alittle washed out as any cab would be but the full range woofer mode was still very clear because of the extra midrange content. The low end drops off either way but at a gig, sometimes when people are too far away to feel you amps thump, they can still hear your mids and the brain fills in some of the missing lows. I also noticed that when I tapped my finger down the string I got more harmonics with the woofer full range, as expected.

I would honestly tell someone who wants this kind of sound but only wants to use one cab, to go buy a baer ml112. I've used that faital mid before and it is closer to this jensen than pretty much anything else. You'll spend probably $250 more but, it may be worth it to many and it would probably cater to more people than my cab. But, I can get these drivers cheap and fast anytime with no fear of neo related problems. (price increases, unavailability, etc)

My main goal was to get the same sound as my modded nv610 in a small package so that I could enjoy the same tone at home and use it to tweak my rig or try new pedals and know that they will sound the same when I get to a gig. The nv610 is pretty easy to move but, in january in upstate ny, it's still not fun to drag out of my truck through the snow into my house. Problem solved.

A note about the delta 15lfa. On it own, full range, in a sealed cab, it sound very much like the 15's used in the bag end cabs. Not quite as bright or efficient though.
 
#76
Kringle can I just ask what made you decide to opt for the Jensen 8 rather than the celestion 8 which would handle more power?

Was it a tone or cost thing or both?

I only ask as I am thinking I am going to have a very similar cab built by Don very soon and am just deciding on a mid driver. I also came close to getting the Baer Ml112 as it sounds like it would be great however my main tube amp only does 2 or 4 ohms.

Thanks very much

Mike
 
#77
I went with the mod 8 origionaly because I had good luck with the mod10-50 and they are definitely both in the same family as far as being "guitar" sounding. I've never heard that celestion. Price isn't ever a consideration, just tone and availability. I also find the lower wattage drivers with lighter magnets (ceramic) sound clearer and sweeter on the top end. When a mid can put out ALOT of watts, they usually have a "ganky" sound to them in a bass cab. Just in my experience. A 2x15 - 1x8 version of this cab would sound really good with a tube amp.
 
#78
kringle77 said:
I went with the mod 8 origionaly because I had good luck with the mod10-50 and they are definitely both in the same family as far as being "guitar" sounding. I've never heard that celestion. Price isn't ever a consideration, just tone and availability. I also find the lower wattage drivers with lighter magnets (ceramic) sound clearer and sweeter on the top end. When a mid can put out ALOT of watts, they usually have a "ganky" sound to them in a bass cab. Just in my experience. A 2x15 - 1x8 version of this cab would sound really good with a tube amp.
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Oh cool thanks for that. I only ask as Don mentioned that there is a the option of using a 8" celestion which he suggests has the "same great upper end but more power handling" than the Jenson but from what you have said there may be subtle differences. I agree a 2x15 version of this cab would be amazing (I have always wanted a Berg NV215) but I am trying to downsize from my NV412 for lower volume/more push from my tube amp.
 
#80
Yeah, that was my first consideration but Don said the delta would work better in a sealed cab than the other one and according to the specs, he was right. I don't know how much the impedance really matters above 800hz anyway as you don't require much wattage up there. I would feel comfortable running a pair of these cabs which on paper would be 4 ohms down low and 2 ohms up high. The bergantino NV215 is running full range to the woofers and then you can blend in the mid for more top end (as far as I know) and nobody has had a problem with that cab so, I think what Im doing shoud be fine. This jensen should be brighter than the eminence mid in the nv. I think that you could get away with running a pair of the 15lfa woofers and one guitar like mid, semi-crossed over like I am doing in a smaller cab than the nv215. That celestion may even work better. I went with what I was sure would work for me and have used before.

Which celestion did he suggest?
 

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