Yep.Tell your singer (in a nice way) to shut up and sing and let the grownups work out the stage plot.
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Lead singer wants my amp behind drummer?
- Thread starter Kanekutter05
- Start date
If you are miking the drums - this is the most idiotic idea ever.
Bass guitar is the hardest thing to hear on a stage - low frequencies need a boatload of power to get enough power to our ears in a loud stage scenario. Putting the bass amp further from your ears (which would happen in this scenario) means you'll have to turn up a lot more just to hear yourself. Bass bleed into the drum mics is always an issue on a small stage. As the bass amp is now closer to the drums AND louder, you will have a lot more bleed into the drum mics. Also, given that the drummer will be assoulted by all that low end, he'll play louder. Which means you'll have to turn up more. Which means he'll play louder. With all that going on, the guitarists will turn up too. You will have a volume war if you do this. This is not conjecture, it's simple facts backed up with a lot of experience.
Educate your singer on these points, and ask what part of this ugly scenario he's trying to achieve.
Educate your singer on these points, and ask what part of this ugly scenario he's trying to achieve.
58 good replies and counting, but my 2-cents says drummer would probably hate it and on top of that, wouldn't the drummer and his kit break up the wave form an kill your sound projection? - I don't know this for a fact, just speculating/asking...
He dislikes the drummer or thinks it will improve his timing.
Ignore him, no one listens to singers after the mic is off. Singers are just above the drummer"s girlfriend on the evolutionary scale.
Ignore him, no one listens to singers after the mic is off. Singers are just above the drummer"s girlfriend on the evolutionary scale.
The bass amp directly behind the drummer? Maybe in his small mind, he is trying to get the headphone a effect where the bass is in the center? I am sure the drummer isn't going to be a happy camper having you take his head off sitting in front of your amp. There wouldn't be any feasible reason I can think of to do so. 50 years of playing and I am sure I never seen it done either.
drumset not so much - meat baffle playing the drums would def. absorb some...
I shall steal this and claim it as my own.....giving you exactly zero credit.
There are two kinds of people on this forum.... this who understand that and those who don't.
What do you mean?
i can't quite get over this one. no one has ever told me/asked me where to put my amp, and that applies to when i played guitar, as well.
to the OP, please let us know what reason your singer gives - right now, i can't imagine a good one.
to the OP, please let us know what reason your singer gives - right now, i can't imagine a good one.
We often set up amps behind the drummer, but that is because the drummer sets up at the very front of stage right, facing the middle of the stage. Keys set up stage left at the front, facing the middle. The bassist is in the middle. All the amps go all the way to the back of the stage. Bass amp goes slightly stage right, which is behind the drummer. Keyboard amp goes slightly stage left, which is behind the keys. Everyone can hear everyone this way, so we don't have to rely on monitors.
Of course if you're using a more traditional stage setup with the drummer hidden behind everyone else, putting anything behind the drummer is silly.
Of course if you're using a more traditional stage setup with the drummer hidden behind everyone else, putting anything behind the drummer is silly.
Wow, thanks everyone for the responses! After reading all of these, my guess is that he wants the amp there for 1) volume dampening and 2) so the drummer could hear me better.
The other reason I definitely am not doing that now is because I am constantly fighting to find a frequency to where I can sit in the mix. As I said in the original post, we have the lead singer/rhythm player...he plays a distorted tone using a Markbass super synth pedal with the octaver on 99% of the time, then we have the lead guitar playing a distorted tone, and then we have the keys which play a synth-y type tone which also has an octaver effect and she plays down in the lower registers on the keyboard. With all that, there’s not much space for me anywhere in the mix.
I’m starting to think the singer just hates bass players...
The other reason I definitely am not doing that now is because I am constantly fighting to find a frequency to where I can sit in the mix. As I said in the original post, we have the lead singer/rhythm player...he plays a distorted tone using a Markbass super synth pedal with the octaver on 99% of the time, then we have the lead guitar playing a distorted tone, and then we have the keys which play a synth-y type tone which also has an octaver effect and she plays down in the lower registers on the keyboard. With all that, there’s not much space for me anywhere in the mix.
I’m starting to think the singer just hates bass players...
You don't want to be blowing the drummer away because then he will be playing too loud. Our drummer/BL is the one to complain about stage volume. On a wide stage I set up beside the drummer but I try to move the amp/speaker forward a little. But, we play on some smaller stages so I usually shoehorn my little 1X12 setup with a GK MB200 just to the left of the bass drum. As you can see in the photo it gives the drummer enough room to get behind his kit. I previously used a 4x10, but I run through the PA all the time so doing about 10 shows a month now, I do fine with the 1x12. Note: those two speaker cabinets stacked on the right are NOT from our PA or with our band.
er cabinets stacked on the right are not from our PA.
- Jan 12, 2011
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Is the Lead Singer the leader of the band? I believe at any level Band Members should have roles and responsibilities. IMO each band needs a Musical Director. The MD takes care of things like this. The leader should not be the MD. And the Lead Singer/Front Man should not be the MD. Did I say that already?The MD can take cues from the singer when singing but.... When onstage the MD controls what happens with the band on stage. The leader can do most of the talking, socializing, fronting etc, Sounds like you and the band need to have a good conversation with the Lead Singer in the back alley 
Yeah, I don't get this at all. I'm sure the LS has some fuzzy (non-)logic behind the concept, but just... NO.
jive1
Commercial User
I'm guessing that not only is it your first show as a band, but you're all also new to doing this gigging thing.
First off, if you're doing one of those gigs where there's multiple bands on the bill, how you want to set up the stage doesn't matter. The stage manager/sound man is going to make that decision, and no one worth their salt is going to allow you to set up the bass amp behind the drummer.
What the singer is suggesting isn't done for many good reasons....
- There's usually not enough room on stage to put anything behind the drummer.
- If you have a tall rig and there's no wall behind the drummer, then it won't be that hard for him to accidentally knock it over.
- If you have a short rig, then it'll be difficult for you or anyone else to hear it when it's behind the drummer competing with the sound of drums.
- It's difficult to make adjustments to your amp if a drum kit is in the way.
- Having the bass behind the drums will make it harder for the drummer to hear the monitor and other instruments.
- Bass causes vibrations, and the drumset has lots of things that vibrate from snares to cymbals.
- If the drums are mic'ed up or triggered, they will pick up the bass, as well as everything that's rattling because of the bass, effictively making them useless for FOH mixing
- Bass is less directional then mids and treble, so there will be no difference to the audience whether the amp is behind the drummer or off to the side.
- If the drummer has a hard time hearing the bass, a line can be run out from the bass to the mixer and and into their monitor.
If the singer (who is obviously new to this) chooses to abandon advice based on thousands of gigs worth of experience, you have other problems on your hands.
First off, if you're doing one of those gigs where there's multiple bands on the bill, how you want to set up the stage doesn't matter. The stage manager/sound man is going to make that decision, and no one worth their salt is going to allow you to set up the bass amp behind the drummer.
What the singer is suggesting isn't done for many good reasons....
- There's usually not enough room on stage to put anything behind the drummer.
- If you have a tall rig and there's no wall behind the drummer, then it won't be that hard for him to accidentally knock it over.
- If you have a short rig, then it'll be difficult for you or anyone else to hear it when it's behind the drummer competing with the sound of drums.
- It's difficult to make adjustments to your amp if a drum kit is in the way.
- Having the bass behind the drums will make it harder for the drummer to hear the monitor and other instruments.
- Bass causes vibrations, and the drumset has lots of things that vibrate from snares to cymbals.
- If the drums are mic'ed up or triggered, they will pick up the bass, as well as everything that's rattling because of the bass, effictively making them useless for FOH mixing
- Bass is less directional then mids and treble, so there will be no difference to the audience whether the amp is behind the drummer or off to the side.
- If the drummer has a hard time hearing the bass, a line can be run out from the bass to the mixer and and into their monitor.
If the singer (who is obviously new to this) chooses to abandon advice based on thousands of gigs worth of experience, you have other problems on your hands.
Funny - I saw this for the first time by another band at a gig I played last Saturday. For the specific situation we were in, an outdoor private party, this worked well. I've certainly always been as close to the drummer as possible. It makes a WORLD of difference. James Brown would have had his bassists sit in the drummer's lap, if he could. Bootsy was always on top of the drummer for a reason. Tightest band in the universe.
[EDIT] The OTHER band used this config, not us. Guy above^ is right tho, behind IN MOST CASES is not a great idea for various reasons.
[EDIT] The OTHER band used this config, not us. Guy above^ is right tho, behind IN MOST CASES is not a great idea for various reasons.
Just ask him why he made that suggestion. Let him explain himself. He will either have a good explanation or not. Then explain why you prefer to set up in a different way. If he says he doesn’t have to explain himself, punch him in the throat.
