1) Many professional vocalist use effects all of the time. 2) I have never heard of vocal effects damaging a PA.
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Lead Vocalist using effects
- Thread starter DeepFriedBass
- Start date
- Oct 18, 2012
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You could always tell him what & how much effects to use on his vocals in the same way he tells you what effects or tone settings to use on your instrument.
What is going on with Ozzy's voice in the song Paranoid? Whatever that is should be used by every vocalist on every song all the time. In fact Ozzy should just go ahead and sing every song for every band from now on.
I don't see an issue. I run a touch of reverb and compression on all the vocal channels. Last gig, used a delay on the guitarist's vocal mic as he sang Purple Rain.
vocal fx are just fine .... as long as they're there to 'ad' not 'cover-up' ...
Peter Gabriel comes to mind ..!?
Peter Gabriel comes to mind ..!?
Not necessarily seeing the problem here.
Fear, uncertainty, and doubt, right out of the gate? Dude.
"Knocked around or crapped out" - yeah, that could technically also happen with a bass pedalboard and DI. Does that make us bassists unprofessional?
If you have an opinion about his sound, simply let him know. You don't need to try to scaremonger him into thinking that he's gonna "blow your PA preamps" or "blow your PA speakers" because that isn't going to happen; it's a bad argument and will honestly only weaken your position.
Consider that, as a vocalist, he may be unaccustomed to the sound of his vocals unprocessed coming back at him through a flattish monitor. (This is common and very normal due to the way we're used to hearing our voices.) If he has a good voice without the effects but is more comfortable hearing them, put the effects through his monitor mix. You can also use them in the mains but with a much dryer signal.
If you want to keep it professional, take a board recording at rehearsal and have a band meeting over it, where you can discuss the wet/dry ratio of the vocal signal and whether or not a change is needed to fit your style of music. (If it's an originals band, you'll have less traction.) If you're able to have a civil, logical discussion about the matter and accept that you may not "win" your argument, you're already on the way to professionalism.
Thanks for the replies, it's good to get an idea of how everyone would react to the situation.
I have nothing against effects and almost always use them on vocals. Usually reverb or delay. Since we have our own sound man, most of us would like to hand the effects to FOH to control and blend through the board instead of just drowning the pre with a super wet signal. We are a cover band and the chorus on vocals works great for several tunes but we play a variety of styles so its kind of preposterous to blast chorus vocals the whole time.
I think we should be able to convince him to dial back the E.Level enough to where were comfortable. And won't be confrontational about it, this is all very good advice.
I have nothing against effects and almost always use them on vocals. Usually reverb or delay. Since we have our own sound man, most of us would like to hand the effects to FOH to control and blend through the board instead of just drowning the pre with a super wet signal. We are a cover band and the chorus on vocals works great for several tunes but we play a variety of styles so its kind of preposterous to blast chorus vocals the whole time.
I think we should be able to convince him to dial back the E.Level enough to where were comfortable. And won't be confrontational about it, this is all very good advice.
Yeah you're right, there is nothing wrong with using effects. I am curious if the pedals into the pres could damage the pres or speakers whether its bass pedals or otherwise. I thought there may be some precautionary measure like a limiter or something but I guess that's built into the boards pres?
I want to get to the point where we do have enough control to actually send different mixes through the monitors and mains but I think I have some good advice here on how not to try to BS him at all, he probably knows more about it than I do. But yeah if we do a board recording then just mention it while listening back that it may sound better if we back it off a bit that might work.
Yeah this was the conversation after practice pretty much to a tee
My thought on this - the board is going to have a gain trim pot, and vocal effects mentioned shouldn't introduce a lot of gain if any, so I wouldn't think you'd be damaging the board's pres. Speakers will definitely have limiters built in, and it's possible to put a limiter on a board's bus, so I'd think that's okay. But yes, I think you're technically correct - it's definitely possible to come in too hot to a board, like sending a line-level signal instead of an instrument signal.
Apologies if I was a bit too harsh in my original post. Looks like you're well on your way to having a constructive conversation. Good luck!
Philosophically I am totally on the same page as you. I have no problems with applying effects to the vocals, but ideally the audio tech should dial them in, rather than the vocalist sending a signal that is over processed.
The problem is many musicians really feel very personally invested in maintaining control of their sound at all times. Unfortunately the control they feel is more of an illusion than a reality. What sounds nice coming out of the vocal monitor might sound awful out front.
Part of the problem is the acoustics on stage may be very different from the acoustics in the house. The other problem is we perceive ourselves differently when we are performing versus when we are just listening. Ideally the vocalist voice should optimized for two different audiences, the vocalist and the actual audience. If the vocalist sends a super wet, overly processed signal to the audio tech, the cake is baked and nothing can be done to correct any problems.
If the vocalist is worth keeping, I would try to negotiate doing it the proper way. This assumes the mixing console has all of the necessary effects and is capable of running all of them simultaneously. The vocalist should write out a cue sheet that includes all of the songs along with the desired effects patches. The audio tech can then set up the patches and rough them in. There will need to be extended time during each sound check to dial in each patch, as they have to be tailored to each acoustic environment. The audio tech will then make further refinements in real time during the show.
The other way to do this, would be to continue using the vocalist's effects processor, but spend an extended time during sound check tailoring the patches to the venue. It's not unusual for an audio tech to ask a musician in a band to make adjustments during sound check, such as reduce your volume, turn down your treble, dampen your bass drum, even out the patches on your keyboard, etc. So it should not be unreasonable to tell a vocalist to balance the effects on his/her effects processor.
If the effects sound awful and the vocalist refuses to compromise, fire the drummer...and by that, I mean replace the vocalist.
Good luck!
yeah is that a slapback he uses..it really sounds good for his voice..
effects are fine if its tasteful..big word there..lol..our audio engineer puts a delay on our singer's vocals for brick in the wall..but only twice or once..right before the solo, and maybe at the end..thats it..tasteful and I gotta say I never noticed it until one night I went out front with a wireless...I was like that sounds awesome..but chorus, I would say no...kind of crutch to make him sound like more than he is..not needed..reverb, okay..
"you're making a rookie mistake by over-processing your vocal signal with the wrong tools."
his size and domicile notwithstanding, good luck being honest with your singer!
Lead vocals are never recorded dry anyway. I see nothing wrong with the lead singer in OP's band.
I think you're exaggerating and trying to find reasons to justify your not liking his approach. I mean, concerned about damaging the PA? Really?
The truth is you don't like his approach, full stop, and that's fine. It's your band. He doesn't do what the band things sounds good for the band, it's entirely justified to tell him as much, and get rid off him if he doesn't do what the band wants.
No need for dramatics, just tell him you don't like the effects. If he wants to use them, no hard feelings, but you'll find someone else. It's the band's sound, not his. I'd say the same thing to anyone else. If everyone in the band doesn't like what someone is doing, it's time for a change.
Lol. This is why I visit talkbass.
You can't damage the PA with an effect. I mean really - what do you think the PA is for? Do you think a speaker knows the difference between a chorus on or off?
Have you done a gig with this singer yet? Have you heard what he sounds like? If you scared away the entire audience then yes talk to him but he's the singer and you should let him do his thing.
Also how would you like the singer or drummer telling you what effects you should use and telling you how to sound? I've only been playing a little over year and only been in a band for 2 months - but the one thing I have learned is there are some boundaries in a band.
You can't damage the PA with an effect. I mean really - what do you think the PA is for? Do you think a speaker knows the difference between a chorus on or off?
Have you done a gig with this singer yet? Have you heard what he sounds like? If you scared away the entire audience then yes talk to him but he's the singer and you should let him do his thing.
Also how would you like the singer or drummer telling you what effects you should use and telling you how to sound? I've only been playing a little over year and only been in a band for 2 months - but the one thing I have learned is there are some boundaries in a band.
