Lead Vocalist using effects

[210superair]

All things in moderation.

 

[FenderB]

A simple "you're not plugging that thing into the board tonight" while setting up for a gig should send the message. Make it a condition of his performance.

Problem solved.

 

[Adjectives]

Seems like it may be an opinion(not necessarily wrong ^_^), and if they are sold on their effects stack the individual might just not be a good fit for your band. It's a fine line between conveying "what sounds good for the band" and telling someone how to use their instrument.

I sing in one of my bands, and a little goes a long way. My Voicelive 3 makes it easy to add a touch of delay/reverb/megaphone sounds I can click on and off for certain parts of songs. I enjoy reverb (especially in small bars with terribly dead acoustics), but I also don't over saturate my vocals. We tend do pop covers, and some of those greatly benefit from effects.

 

[Adjectives]

Potential damage to the PA notwithstanding, Couldn't the same be said for any musician (besides electric keyboards/synths) who uses effects rather just a clean signal from their instrument? If it's OK for the bass and guitar player why is it some kind of deep need to compensate when a vocalist does exactly the same thing?

I agree. I've had a band member tell me I couldn't use a certain pedal on my chain for bass. I told them that's not their place, and then asked the rest of the band what they thought. No one else had an issue. That member was asked to leave about 6 months after the incident.

 

[PullThePlug]

What is up with all these clowns?

Vocals are always processed. Mixers have onboard EQ and limiters.

The amatuers are out in full force in this thread!

 

[mcnach]

Again for anyone not reading through, I have no problem with effects and they are largely responsible for how music sounds today. But theres never really an instance where 75% wet chorus with a TC Doubler is going to work for a full set with a cover band. I mean, a chorus and doubler is like multiplying the same effect.

Well, it was one of your opening statements that they could damage the PA... so people are still commenting on that at times. You can't blame them for it, really.

 

[DeepFriedBass]

What is up with all these clowns?

Vocals are always processed. Mixers have onboard EQ and limiters.

The amatuers are out in full force in this thread!

If only a 3 band EQ could somehow reach over 30 feet and turn the wet knob from 80% to 12% we'd be set. It's more of a stubborn band mate thing, anyway.

 

[LBS-bass]

But theres never really an instance where 75% wet chorus with a TC Doubler is going to work for a full set with a cover band.

I agree with that. So I think you have to ask him to listen to the music (Doobies pun intended) and explain how his effect helps the vocals on that song, when the original doesn't use them. Hopefully his effects unit has a bypass switch and he's just being lazy with it.

 

[LBS-bass]

I agree with that. So I think you have to ask him to listen to the music (Doobies pun intended) and explain how his effect helps the vocals on that song, when the original doesn't use them. Hopefully his effects unit has a bypass switch and he's just being lazy with it.

And if I missed something and he's using the effects that are onboard the mixer for this, he needs to get a pedal.

 

[Coolhandjjl]

John Lennon, Tommy James, Gene Vincent, Joe Walsh......

 

[DeepFriedBass]

John Lennon, Tommy James, Gene Vincent, Joe Walsh......

Nope, he's none of those people.

 

[AGCurry]

also this ^

Nobody is telling the guitar player "turn off that chorus, limiter, reverb, phaser, compression, tube screamer, flanger, memory man, big muff pi, octave, tremolo, wah-wah, turbo-rat, etc...and let us hear what you REALLY sound like"

I might not tell the guitar player that but I sure would be thinking it.

 

[drumvsbass]

Get him to turn the wet dry mix down as a compromise, send the super effected signal to his in ear mix (no in ears?? tell the pro to get some.) The problem is obviously that his effect sounds like garbage (dated or otherwise), if he had plugged this thing in and it had sounded like a million bucks you wouldn't be posting. I have had the pleasure of working with a couple of singers who had this sort of vocal effect processing DIALED in and it was awesome. They all had a quick way to access the wet dry mix for differing situations, or sent the house mix a separate 'wet' feed.

 

[hrodbert696]

As a backup singer in bar bands that can't bring in a trio of gospel singers, I use an octaver (from the TC Helicon voicetone series) that can go octave-up or -down. I agree with the OP that you don't generally want a pile of always-on effects bombarding the ears all the time (but a bit of reverb and compression are no big deal). But for me, the point of the octaver is to create some options that flesh out the tone on particular songs when needed. For instance, I have a baritone voice, but there's no way I or any of us in the band are going to nail the low vocal that doubles the bass line on Uptown Funk. The pedal gets the sound just the way we want it.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

If your vocalist shows up, doesn't require changing keys, maybe even helps with some mic stand or something, let them use whatever effects they want.

 

[Downunderwonder]

Thanks for the replies, it's good to get an idea of how everyone would react to the situation.

I have nothing against effects and almost always use them on vocals. Usually reverb or delay. Since we have our own sound man, most of us would like to hand the effects to FOH to control and blend through the board instead of just drowning the pre with a super wet signal. We are a cover band and the chorus on vocals works great for several tunes but we play a variety of styles so its kind of preposterous to blast chorus vocals the whole time.

I think we should be able to convince him to dial back the E.Level enough to where were comfortable. And won't be confrontational about it, this is all very good advice.

Your sound guy can give him all the chorus and whatnot he wants in his monitor then. Everyone's happy.

 

[DeepFriedBass]

If your vocalist shows up, doesn't require changing keys, maybe even helps with some mic stand or something, let them use whatever effects they want.

Haha, true. It's hard enough finding someone that meshes well enough to have a conversation with much less a person who can sing in different keys.

I think things will work out, honestly if we work together to dial them in just right it would probably sound great.

 

[Wasnex]

also this ^

Nobody is telling the guitar player "turn off that chorus, limiter, reverb, phaser, compression, tube screamer, flanger, memory man, big muff pi, octave, tremolo, wah-wah, turbo-rat, etc...and let us hear what you REALLY sound like"

It's not unusual for the audio tech to ask the guitar player to reduce the amount of reverb.

 

[Wasnex]

If someone tried to tell me how I should eq my own voice after doing this for many years, I'd recognize that I had just stepped into amateur land.

I rarely use anything beyond reverb in a live setting, but if I'd recorded my vocals with processing I would want to use the same sort of processing live. A voice is just another instrument in the mix. I have zero understanding of how a processed vocal would magically rise to the level of damaging speakers when all that dirt everyone else is throwing on their signal is of no concern.

IMHO, I accept you know best how to EQ your voice for the monitor mix. However, it's likely that a totally different EQ is required for FOH. Unless you can be in two different positions at the same time and also manifest two different mental processes simultaneously, I.E. listening and singing, you should let a competent audio tech EQ your vocals for the FOH mix instead of getting territorial and throwing insults.

For all of you who say using effects cannot damage the speakers, sorry but YOU'RE MISSING SOMETHING! When you apply reverb to an open mic it greatly reduces the gain before feedback. If any mic goes into screaming feedback, the chances of blown horn drivers goes up exponentially. FYI, the use of distortion and compression also reduce gain before feedback. So the overuse of effects can definitely lead to speaker damage.

 

[Ronzo]

Many vocalists don't understand that reverb (and certain other time-domain effects) effect the position of the voice in the mix regarding the perceived stage position forward or backward of the singer.

Just as panning the vocal to one side or the other affects the audience's perception of how far off-center the performer is positioned, reverb affects the audience's perception of how close to the front of the stage the vocalist is. For those of you who can listen to a mix and control reverb applied to individual vocal channels, it can be eye-opening to have reverb applied to background vocal channels and have the lead vocalist's channel run dry. The lead vocal will appear more forward in the mix, without increasing that channel's volume. Increasing reverb on the lead vocal will cause it to blend with the other voices, useful for multi-part choruses within the song.

Less reverb on the lead vocal also allows for more gain before feedback.

One of the more useful things I learned from the Yamaha Sound Reinforcement Handbook. If you have a chance to buy or download it, it is money well spent.