Learning bass as an nth instrument

[BarfanyShart]

Now that's something I can get behind! I don't think I've ever had someone tell me to work transcription into my practice routine for other instruments, but it makes total sense for bass. Thank you.

They got these handheld recording devices nowadays, that you can use as a headphone amp and input another audio source, mix the two channels, record and play back at variable speed without pitch change. I don't have one (I mostly use the computer), but I understand that this is a tool a lot of people here are using for their headphone practice and transcription needs.

 

[WestyBassBob]

As others have mentioned in this thread, there is more than one way to play the same note. The concept of "position" doesn't exist on keyboard instruments in the same way that it does for string instruments.

When it comes to fretboards (and I can only really speak to mandolin at this point), I think one thing that's been really difficult to wrap my mind around is fingering choices around multiple strings. If you picture playing a single note on a keyboard, the next closest notes are all one wholetone or semitone away, and your fingers move along a single axis. If you picture playing a single note somewhere in the middle of a fretboard, now you're looking two axes of movement: up and down the fretboard, and across multiple strings. The concept of "proximity" is broadened from wholetones and semitones to much larger intervals.

Definitely hear you on jamming with folks who are older and better. As a classical pianist, I was always too afraid to dive into jazz/improv until I started jamming with older musicians. Then I developed that "just do it" mentality that is really vital to jazz/improv.

A good example of this is when playing an A do you pluck the open A or do 5th Fret on E? Most of the time, bassists will opt for the second option as many bassists dislike open strings. But depending on where your fingers are and what the next note is you may prefer to pluck the open A.

When I learned So Lonely by the Police I discovered that the way my teacher had taught it to me was different than in a book I looked at. But when I played it both ways it sounded exactly the same, so I went with the method my teacher gave me because it was easier to play that way.

 

[Mushroo]

I didn't know about the octave transposition! That is very helpful. I'm also a big fan of Bach; I'll have to skim through some of my piano books to find good bass lines to work on. Do you have any particular favorite Bach pieces to play on bass?

Great question! I am actually opposite of you: I'm a fairly experienced rock/blues bassist, but a beginner classical pianist. On piano I have been learning some easy Bach pieces, like preludes from the Well Tempered Clavier, or the Aria from the Goldberg Variations. But I struggle with something like the two-part inventions. Hope that gives you a clear idea of my piano skill set.

In terms of Bach's music that is fun and challenging to play on bass, I am a huge fan of his Cello Suites. But there are some pretty substantial technical challenges. It wouldn't be my recommendation for a starting point. A better starting point would be something like, put on a recording of the Goldbergs and play along with the bass, even just that descending G, F#, E, D, etc. in the lowest voice, and you'll feel like you're making "real" music.

(edit) That Goldberg Variation left-hand part, is an example where I might not transpose it an octave. Fits pretty well on the bass as-written.

 

[WestyBassBob]

Great question! I am actually opposite of you: I'm a fairly experienced rock/blues bassist, but a beginner classical pianist. On piano I have been learning some easy Bach pieces, like preludes from the Well Tempered Clavier, or the Aria from the Goldberg Variations. But I struggle with something like the two-part inventions. Hope that gives you a clear idea of my piano skill set.

In terms of Bach's music that is fun and challenging to play on bass, I am a huge fan of his Cello Suites. But there are some pretty substantial technical challenges. It wouldn't be my recommendation for a starting point. A better starting point would be something like, put on a recording of the Goldbergs and play along with the bass, even just that descending G, F#, E, D, etc. in the lowest voice, and you'll feel like you're making "real" music.

I’d second that. The Bach Cello Suites are a great challenge for bass. But not for a beginner.

 

[Groove Doctor]

1. Memorise your fretboard. It’s the foundation for everything. (A piano keyboard is so much easier to learn in comparison).

2. Learn how to play scales & arpeggios. (Scale patterns are movable, so much easier than keyboard). That’ll reinforce and extend your fretboard knowledge, good fingering, tone, timing.

3. Transfer your existing knowledge (Songs you already know) across to bass. This is fun.

4. Transcribe bass lines from pop songs. This’ll develop your ear, your vocabulary of bass lines to inform your playing, the nuances of groove, memorisation, and introduce good taste in note choices. This will take a lifetime to master.


You can download transcriptions off the net. It won’t develop a finely tuned ear but will really speed up the process of playing songs.
https://freebasstranscriptions.com/transcriptions/

 

[JW56789]

I was trained as a pianist throughout my school days, and did not accept a piano scholarship, I'd had enough by then. I read both clefs like the newspaper, was thoroughly grounded in it all, and strangely deaf as a post in terms of matching pitch vocally early on, the ear training was quite a leap.

I always wanted to rock. I'm wired by DNA to hear bass, it's innate. So I decided I'd learn, innocently telling myself it would be like learning to type: I knew spelling, punctuation, etc., I just needed to learn the typewriter, so, I'd transfer my musical knowledge to the bass, 'what the hell, it's only one note and one hand at a time. Easy !' Well, it didn't quite work out that way, but then it did.

Of course, all the theory transfers, but like anything in life, to get really good you spend the time and dig deeply into the minutia and the tiny details, and that takes a while ( . . . .still to this day . . . .), and unlike classical music, so little of it is properly written out or transcribed in a really half-ass way, so that's rarely much help.

Then it really took me a while to wrap myself as to the scales or finger positions 'overlapping': Do I play this E on the A-string, the D-string, up HERE, down THERE, etc., I was welded to seeing the scales in the linear fashion we see on a keyboard. It's actually an advantage ultimately, as you have more ways to play a given figure, but it took me a long time to 'get it', and ultimately the biggest reason I went to five-string was I could play a two-octave scale across the fingerboard in one position without shifting up or down the neck, it seemed more keyboard like to me.

To me it's far more creative and far more intellectually challenging to sit in that spot between the drums and everybody else and make it all work, one note at a time.

 

[coyote1]

Any exercise books in particular that you recommend?

No. I learned these exercises from a guitar instructor back when I was young, and I simply applied these to bass.

Simply work out patterns of fingerings, such as the things I showed, and do them. Ensure you work the pinky into these exercises. It’s sorta like stick control exercises for drummers. Doubles, paradiddles, singles, flams, ratamacues, etc. You rarely if ever do these actual things when playing with a band (unless you’re Steve Gadd doing 50 Ways), but having done them you develop control over your muscles.

 

[BarfanyShart]

Here's what I got on my stand for bass guitar technique practice:

The Bach Suites and Beethoven Symphonies. I split my practice time like this:
1/3: pick a random page from the music stand and hack at it as a warm up/technique exercise.
1/3: transcribe a bass line, usually whatever I have heard recently on the radio that I think has a cool bass line.
1/3: play my own stuff, song and bass line ideas, compositions, improvisation, noodling - and record some bit of it.

 

[Standalone]

I did not read every response but would like to point out that bringing your playing style and quirks from another instrument isn’t necessarily a bad thing. My band’s guitarist was remarking with real shock at how differently I play guitar — like a bassist! Not bad just different.

Why not bring your Mando sensibilities to the world of bass?

 

[Scott Lynch]

Hey TBers! First time posting here. It's been a longtime goal of mine to learn to play bass, and I wanted to get some input on how to approach this as someone with a fair amount of musical experience.

For reference, I've been playing piano for over 20 years (mostly classical, some jazz), so I read and know theory. I've been playing mandolin off and on for the last ~8 years, and I started taking mando lessons at the beginning of quarantine. Fretboards are still somewhat mystifying to me, but I'm getting there

Seems like a lot of beginner method books (for most instruments, not just bass) start off with lessons like: "What are notes? What's a scale?"

If you've been in a similar position, what were some resources that helped you skip past the beginner theory, build technique, and just start playing?

You have a big advantage in both being able to read and in learning the bass as a 'not first' instrument. Since you can read music I'd recommend diving into a method book. There are many resources out there but I'd recommend fist working through Ed Friedland's Book, The Hal Leonard Bass Method. It is etude heavy and technically progressive in a way I think you would understand and appreciate as a classically trained musician (speaking from experience).

What kind of music do you want to play? It's obviously important to learn some rep. There are many avenues to go about this. Youtube is full of video lessons and tabs are easy to find for many songs, but the quality of this content varies and often is not that great. Sheet Music Plus offers high quality tab and tab/notation charts, but at a price.

 

[George Dennis]

I was trained as a pianist throughout my school days, and did not accept a piano scholarship, I'd had enough by then. I read both clefs like the newspaper, was thoroughly grounded in it all, and strangely deaf as a post in terms of matching pitch vocally early on, the ear training was quite a leap.

I always wanted to rock. I'm wired by DNA to hear bass, it's innate. So I decided I'd learn, innocently telling myself it would be like learning to type: I knew spelling, punctuation, etc., I just needed to learn the typewriter, so, I'd transfer my musical knowledge to the bass, 'what the hell, it's only one note and one hand at a time. Easy !' Well, it didn't quite work out that way, but then it did.

Of course, all the theory transfers, but like anything in life, to get really good you spend the time and dig deeply into the minutia and the tiny details, and that takes a while ( . . . .still to this day . . . .), and unlike classical music, so little of it is properly written out or transcribed in a really half-ass way, so that's rarely much help.

Then it really took me a while to wrap myself as to the scales or finger positions 'overlapping': Do I play this E on the A-string, the D-string, up HERE, down THERE, etc., I was welded to seeing the scales in the linear fashion we see on a keyboard. It's actually an advantage ultimately, as you have more ways to play a given figure, but it took me a long time to 'get it', and ultimately the biggest reason I went to five-string was I could play a two-octave scale across the fingerboard in one position without shifting up or down the neck, it seemed more keyboard like to me.

To me it's far more creative and far more intellectually challenging to sit in that spot between the drums and everybody else and make it all work, one note at a time.

I agree with the suggestion to at least try a 5-string.

This isn't usually recommend for new starters, but because you understand music theory it'd make learning the fretboard a cinch (circle of 4ths / 5ths at every fret!)

In addition to that, as @jwilson said, you get two octaves in every hand position, as well as 4-string bass "built-in" at the 5th fret and no need to tune to Drop D!

 

[Paul New]

As others have mentioned in this thread, there is more than one way to play the same note. The concept of "position" doesn't exist on keyboard instruments in the same way that it does for string instruments.

When it comes to fretboards (and I can only really speak to mandolin at this point), I think one thing that's been really difficult to wrap my mind around is fingering choices around multiple strings. If you picture playing a single note on a keyboard, the next closest notes are all one wholetone or semitone away, and your fingers move along a single axis. If you picture playing a single note somewhere in the middle of a fretboard, now you're looking two axes of movement: up and down the fretboard, and across multiple strings. The concept of "proximity" is broadened from wholetones and semitones to much larger intervals.

Definitely hear you on jamming with folks who are older and better. As a classical pianist, I was always too afraid to dive into jazz/improv until I started jamming with older musicians. Then I developed that "just do it" mentality that is really vital to jazz/improv.

I play mandolin too. Ever since years ago I was browsing the jazz section in the record store and came across this David Grisman album, Dawg Jazz/Dawg Grass, and was intrigued enough to buy one. It's fun, but definitely presents challenges to play well.

Anyway, the best way to learn, really internalize, the fingerboard on either instrument is to read music. Just find music that interests you, whether Bach or Jeff Berlin's Bach derived etudes, the Omnibook whatever, and play. Repetition will get it done. You can, and many players on either instrument do, strictly think of geometric positions to find degrees of a scale, chord tones, etc...but that when used alone will be severely restricting. On bass you know for example that two strings to the treble side and two frets up is the octave. Within that single position all the scale degrees are easy to figure out. But if you have internalized the fingerboard you don't have to think that way. You know where the minor 3rd of G, Bb, is all over the neck. Much better. Same applies to mandolin but of course geometry on the 5ths fingerboard is different. Off soapbox...

 

[Manticore]

I started on piano. I learned a couple of reed instruments next, and after seven or eight years in music with private lessons, took on bass on my own. Like you I could read and had an understanding of theory when I started bass. This was way before personal computers or printed bass guitar instruction. I learned by simply reading piano scores. After tackling those I started looking into cello and string bass scores. Because you read, once you find the notes on the fingerboard the rest should fall into place.

 

[MVE]

Also, as you are already a competent piano player, I would also suggest the very first scale you learn should be the CHROMATIC scale!
Starting from G on the E string.
E string ----3-4-5-6-7
A string ----3-4-5-6-7
D string ----3-4-5

Knowing how any 12 half-steps go across the strings will make it much easier to SEE the keyboard on the fret-board.

 

[TuneIn]

The lute that Hawkman plays.

Ahh! Should of known!!

 

[BarfanyShart]

Ahh! Should of known!!

Do you know what kind of music Hawkman plays with his lute?