Learning bass as an nth instrument

[And I]

Youtube videos can be great for learning specific techniques. I won't suggest any specific content creators because I don't want to have this thread devolve into arguing about whose videos are better. We are in similar situations as I started on bass after having played piano, trumpet, and guitar for a long time. Youtube videos have helped me a lot in developing the technical skills that weren't transferable from guitar.

 

[Heavy Blue]

Welcome to TalkBass! My advice is to take some of your favorite piano pieces, and play the left-hand (bass clef) parts on your bass. For example I am a huge Bach fan and think he wrote some great bass lines.

One very important thing to remember is that bass is a "transposing instrument" that sounds 1 octave lower than written. So when you play piano music on bass, usually you want to transpose it an octave. A lot of people incorrectly think they need to buy a 5-string bass to play piano music, not realizing the transposing thing.

So you say to transpose it an octave but which way? Up to match the piano sheet music? This is confusing to me, sorry. Yes, my theory is lacking.

 

[Pdaddy1978]

Understanding the role of the bass in popular music is job one.
My first teacher clued me in early about the bass being a "rythem " instrument, and how it relates to drums more then other instruments.
You provide syncopation and make things "swing".
Listen to your favorite music with an ear for the downbeat, typically when the drummer is hitting the bass drum. That's where you live now.
I've givin lessons to others who came from other instruments who quickly and easily learned where the notes were, but struggled mightily with when to play them.
Good luck.... and stick with it!

 

[lfmn16]

If you've been in a similar position, what were some resources that helped you skip past the beginner theory, build technique, and just start playing?

Get a good teacher. With Skype lessons and so many great players out of work because of the plague, there's no excuse for not being able to find one. It will shorten your learning curve exponentially.

 

[Killing Floor]

Compared to piano the bass isn't intimidating to learn. Especially since you know the "work" part already. Get in tune, compare positions to a piano and pay attention to the associated positions of the guitar neck. Frets and keys are fundamentally similar in that they fix the output/note/notes. With what you already understand about rhythms and the fundamentals I'd bet you pick it up very quickly.
No harm in scanning online lessons or virtual or in person (if that's a thing these days). I played violin and piano and a little cello found the jump pretty reasonable. Focus on a handful of scales to get the swing of things and the mechanics and timing.

 

[Mushroo]

So you say to transpose it an octave but which way? Up to match the piano sheet music? This is confusing to me, sorry. Yes, my theory is lacking.

Bass sounds 1 octave lower than written. Here is an example that I think will make that clear. It is a piano arrangement of Johnny Cash's "I Walk the Line." If you didn't know bass was a transposing instrument, you'd think you need a 5 string to play those low C's. But if you watch live video of Johnny Cash, you'll see that his bassist has a 4 string and is playing C at the 8th fret of the E string.

If this were notated for bass (instead of piano) it would be written 1 octave higher.

Same is true for guitar, by the way: it's a transposing instrument that sounds an octave lower than written.

 

[Paul New]

Hey TBers! First time posting here. It's been a longtime goal of mine to learn to play bass, and I wanted to get some input on how to approach this as someone with a fair amount of musical experience.

For reference, I've been playing piano for over 20 years (mostly classical, some jazz), so I read and know theory. I've been playing mandolin off and on for the last ~8 years, and I started taking mando lessons at the beginning of quarantine. Fretboards are still somewhat mystifying to me, but I'm getting there

Seems like a lot of beginner method books (for most instruments, not just bass) start off with lessons like: "What are notes? What's a scale?"

If you've been in a similar position, what were some resources that helped you skip past the beginner theory, build technique, and just start playing?

Jeff Berlin has a good “academic” program, and you can start where you need to start.

 

[Pings Bass]

My advice is to understand the bass as a contrapuntal instrument. Coming from classical, this shouldn't be a stretch. A lot of rock bassists come to the instrument from guitar, and instead of thinking in terms of melodic counterpoint, just want to lay a throbbing foundation for a wall of guitar. I find that approach boring and tiresome at the same time.

In terms of learning the notes on the fingerboard, most double bass players learn it from Simandl. It works for bass guitar, too.

Have fun!

 

[Patrice B]

With the usual suspects: BassBuzz, Scott’s bass lessons, Adam Neely.

Being on a similar position, learning flute (recorder) first, keyboard/piano, guitar (I really suck!), drums and then, bass last year.

I must admit the fretboard is still a mystery for me (apart roots, 4ths and 5ths) but my ears tells me if I’m on a right or wrong note...

My skills are growing but it’s just recently that my playing improved a lot (last week in fact). Finally managed to mute (almost) correctly to avoid muddy messy sound!! Been playing for about 10 months and I have a lot of fun. My girlfriend, not so much (« I hear you a lot when you play bass »,... I practice on a low powered Kalamazoo Bass 30 these days, my Traynors 50 watters are too loud... except if I want to play along drums ).

Mainly playing with my own stuff (little piano/keys/guitar/drums groove). Never liked to play scales on any instrument, a bit lazy. I know it could help me plays piano/guitar/bass but not much drums...

 

[standing_wav]

Honestly learning a fretboard is the same as learning a keyboard. There are two right ways to do it. Scales and arpeggios. And, scales and arpeggios.
You also need to do metronome work. Focus on SLOWSLOWSLOWSLOW exercises emphasizing an effort to keep your articulation consistent; notice how each degree of motion, the slightest change in plucking angle or position, the roll of your fretting fingers, your posture in shoulder and waist, etc., all add up. Trust me if you don't sound good playing slowly you DON'T sound good playing fast.

As for understanding your nth instrument's role, as a keyboard player you may struggle with the "less is more" but truly, it's everything. Bass players play strings of sixteenth notes sometimes, too, but.....it's usually one pitch. The root. Consistent and convincing delivery of every rhythmic, harmonic, and structural motif is what it's your job to deliver; not the "wow" factor that other instruments are designed for. The fluid, chaotic roles of melody, hook, and lead, perform the acrobatics above our steady static support.

All really solid advice—thank you, Angry Narwhal! Some of this echoes my experience with learning mandolin (scales and arpeggios, posture, slight changes in plucking and fretting). I'll definitely keep this in mind.

 

[standing_wav]

Welcome to TalkBass! My advice is to take some of your favorite piano pieces, and play the left-hand (bass clef) parts on your bass. For example I am a huge Bach fan and think he wrote some great bass lines.

One very important thing to remember is that bass is a "transposing instrument" that sounds 1 octave lower than written. So when you play piano music on bass, usually you want to transpose it an octave. A lot of people incorrectly think they need to buy a 5-string bass to play piano music, not realizing the transposing thing.

I didn't know about the octave transposition! That is very helpful. I'm also a big fan of Bach; I'll have to skim through some of my piano books to find good bass lines to work on. Do you have any particular favorite Bach pieces to play on bass?

 

[arbiterusa]

If you've been in a similar position, what were some resources that helped you skip past the beginner theory, build technique, and just start playing?

Learned to tune it (I'd been playing violin for seven years prior) and then just started working out my scales. You know those; you just need to map them to the fretboard. A couple of VERY directed lessons from a teacher on how to pluck the string effectively and how to fret effectively will help a lot. Otherwise I'd just learn those scales and then start translating all those left-hand piano parts to the bass.

 

[standing_wav]

Ok skip all that theory stuff, you already know it a C is a C, a G is a G.

What exactly is the difficulty with the fretboard?

It doesn't really have the sensible layout of the keyboard (you can alter the tuning to Tritones, to gain symmetry but I wouldn't recomend it), you do have to learn the locations of the notes if you want to apply you previously gained knowledge and concepts.

When I started, I just jammed with folks older and better than me. I taught myself to read and music theory.

As others have mentioned in this thread, there is more than one way to play the same note. The concept of "position" doesn't exist on keyboard instruments in the same way that it does for string instruments.

When it comes to fretboards (and I can only really speak to mandolin at this point), I think one thing that's been really difficult to wrap my mind around is fingering choices around multiple strings. If you picture playing a single note on a keyboard, the next closest notes are all one wholetone or semitone away, and your fingers move along a single axis. If you picture playing a single note somewhere in the middle of a fretboard, now you're looking two axes of movement: up and down the fretboard, and across multiple strings. The concept of "proximity" is broadened from wholetones and semitones to much larger intervals.

Definitely hear you on jamming with folks who are older and better. As a classical pianist, I was always too afraid to dive into jazz/improv until I started jamming with older musicians. Then I developed that "just do it" mentality that is really vital to jazz/improv.

 

[standing_wav]

But, you know, electric bass is really all about sitting down with your headphones and figuring out how to play a bass line from the recording. So definitely work some transcription into your practice routine, because that is a core skill for the instrument.

Now that's something I can get behind! I don't think I've ever had someone tell me to work transcription into my practice routine for other instruments, but it makes total sense for bass. Thank you.

 

[standing_wav]

Once you have got some songs under your belt and had a good deal of fun in the process, then maybe think about approaching the instrument in a more formal, rigorous way, if that is what you want.

Total opposite of how I learned piano I think maybe I'd want to combine learning songs with "formal, rigorous" training? I guess what I'm saying is I want to make sure I'm developing good habits/technique along the way.

 

[standing_wav]

Until you get some facility on the fretboard, nothing else will matter. So those who have spoken about correct technique (including posture) are the starting point. And just as on a piano where fingerings matter, they matter on the fretboard. So exercises to develop finger strength (along with coordination between the hands) are important. Those include simple 1-2-3-4 (index, middle, ring, pinky) across the fretboard and progressively up and down the fretboard. Then 1-3-4, 1-2-4, 1-4, 2-4, etc.

Accompany that with simple, beginner-book reading exercises. Simple melodies. That way, as your finger strength develops so will your bass-reading skill.

As you get better at that and start to move to more complex melodies, you will begin to need the skill of arpeggios. That’s when you start doing arpeggios as finger exercises, up and down and across the neck. Do those to written exercises, so that again you are playing the notes as you see them on the staff.

Any exercise books in particular that you recommend?

 

[logdrum]

You will gig more as a KB player and get paid more. If I kept up my piano chops, I would just do B3 and play the bass lines with my left hand and left foot.

But if you want to play bass, we welcome you you with open arms. All the advice above is good. Not to complicate things but if you are already a mandolin player, you can tune your bass in 5ths.

 

[micguy]

What is a "nth instrument"?

It's the instrument you learn after your (n-1)th instrument.

 

[fretlessman71]

If you're anything like me - and I know I sure am - you benefit from seeing how the same bit of music is played on different instruments, and you try to cross-reference the two as much as possible.

A stringed instrument is kind of like taking 4 keyboards, cutting off the white keys where they meet the black keys so you have all keys the same length and width, and stacking the keyboards on top of one another, offset by 5 notes (seven if it's a mandolin). Then someone comes along and says they passed a law that you can't move your arm left or right, and you'll have to find notes by going up to the next keyboard if you want to go higher.

Concise, no, but accurate.

What is driving you to play the bass? The sound? Its role in popular music? Because there aren't any bassists in your area? Because it looks easy? Answering this question will go a long way towards helping you get where you want to be.

 

[WestyBassBob]

A lot of really good advice here. On thing that's super helpful in learning the bass is that the fifth fret is the same note as the open string below it. And the 12th fret is the same note as an open string, but one octave higher. Once you remember those two values it's fairly easy to start learning where to go on your fretboard to get a certain note, and I can't even read music.

I think the best way to learn the bass is just start playing songs. You can usually find bass tabs to most popular songs on the web, or you can buy books (I like Bass Tab Whitepages myself). A really good beginner riff is Money by Pink Floyd. It uses all four strings, is really only like 4-6 notes but presents all the challenges that good bass playing requires; steady, rhythmic, consistent tone that makes the groove of the song go.

However one thing I discovered was that a lot of basslines are written to compliment a melody so it can be challenging to play notes that don't match the song in your head so you have to pick songs where the bassline is prominent in the melody or you need to be able to play along with bandmates or a recording. I have no bandmates and I am not good enough to play along with most recordings, so what I've instead started doing is just working out my own arrangements to whatever song I feel like playing.

For example I recently worked out an arrangement to the Pink Panther Theme. I suppose there's a bass in the recorded version somewhere but I can't hear it. So I just play the notes on the fretboard that match the melody in my head. I listen to the tune again if I need to and adjust my notes and voila! I am playing a song! Sometimes I may also change or add notes to make it more interesting or challenging but once I get the basic notes I practice them until I can play them smoothly and effortlessly.

I'm sure Henry Mancini would shout at me right away if I played the notes and tempo I'm playing, but I'm just happy to be making music. I'm pretty sure this is how all my British rock idols from the 60s and 70s got started, by just trying to play the music they liked however they could and as their skills developed they started writing and playing new songs and a new genre of music was born.