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Let's talk about 6SL7 tubes!

#61
They can sound so different that it's personal preference. I love Sylvania 12ax7s. In the Rack Monique their 6SL7s were mid pack to me. I only tried two. If I had had 15 perhaps the golden ones would have appeared. I know our own tone goals, touch etc. make this very personal.

That box of RCAs whew!!!! :eek: Tube desire, who knew?:rollno:

6SL7s sound so big in the Monique they are like power tubes.

More when I get back from cow tipping. Whoops, rolling. Tube rolling.:hmm:
 
#62
JimmyM said:
I don't have as much experience with them as Charlie and David, but I'm hoping to use this thread and other people's upcoming Monique tube rolling experiments to narrow it down ;) I've been using Sylvanias in my B-15, and I briefly tried RCA's. The RCA's I got sounded great but crackled. Probably a fluke, but I was weirded out that they all crackled and got a few Sylvanias because that's what Ampeg used. They sound great to me. Ampeg's using JAN Philips 6SL7's in the Heritage B-15, but my tube guru who knows every single thing there is to know about every tube made told me they're Sylvanias. Wish I could compare them to the Sovteks it came with when I bought it, but I'll say this for the Sovteks...they lasted for years.
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That's my idea too. I'd like to see if we can round up the options and maybe parse out some general tone/gain/fee/noise/microphonics/reliability impressions.

Once I get a free moment, I'll throw together a list of modern production, readily available tubes and we can maybe work on a list of 'vintage' out of production tubes. I know that a lot of it is in the ear of the beholder and the actual circuit that's being used, but I think we might be able to come up with some generalizations that we can agree upon and might help those who want to try 6SL7 rolling but want some broader sense of what's what.
 
#64
metron said:
I don't plan on tube rolling when I get Monique. You guys go ahead and let me know what you hear. ;)
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Okay!
Back a while I said the same thing........:)
Actually the originals sound great and the Monique perfect.
Had I not had "bicoastal bad batch tube plague" I wouldn't be rolling.....

"Hi my name is Chadds and I'm a tube roller.
I thought it was under control. Just the occasional 12ax7 among friends......
Then, well......
Does Tone Quest mean anything here?
No it is an excuse, but it's so good when it's....okay, then I was online. Going to Hamfests which aren't pig roasts I now know.....
This is why I'm here......."
 
#65
BurningSkies said:
That's my idea too. I'd like to see if we can round up the options and maybe parse out some general tone/gain/fee/noise/microphonics/reliability impressions.

Once I get a free moment, I'll throw together a list of modern production, readily available tubes and we can maybe work on a list of 'vintage' out of production tubes. I know that a lot of it is in the ear of the beholder and the actual circuit that's being used, but I think we might be able to come up with some generalizations that we can agree upon and might help those who want to try 6SL7 rolling but want some broader sense of what's what.
Click to expand...

My friend bought some pretty spiffy tube testing gear and once his new shop is up and running I'll likely have access to it. In the meantime I'll try to figure out a barter for some of that stash though...:cool:
 
#67
beans-on-toast said:
Under normal operation I don't see a need to split them. When you hit a cathode biased stage hard, say due to an abrupt change in the player's signal level, the bias can change to the extent that it can be heard in the form of a distortion. This is very short lived so isn't really an issue but I figure that if a tweak helps, it might be worth trying. You never know.
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That's more a function of the power supply. The tubes won't really know the difference if they share a cathode resistor or not.

Sometimes it's worth separating cathode resistors in preamp stages (some amps would have two stages sharing a single cathode resistor - including some early Fender models), but in a power stage it's less of an issue because it's push/pull.
 
#68
chadds said:
Okay!
Back a while I said the same thing........:)
Actually the originals sound great and the Monique perfect.
Had I not had "bicoastal bad batch tube plague" I wouldn't be rolling.....

"Hi my name is Chadds and I'm a tube roller.
I thought it was under control. Just the occasional 12ax7 among friends......
Then, well......
Does Tone Quest mean anything here?
No it is an excuse, but it's so good when it's....okay, then I was online. Going to Hamfests which aren't pig roasts I now know.....
This is why I'm here......."
Click to expand...

HA! :p
 
#69
JimmyM said:
Ampeg's using JAN Philips 6SL7's in the Heritage B-15, but my tube guru who knows every single thing there is to know about every tube made told me they're Sylvanias.
Click to expand...

And he's right. Just about all the JAN Philips stuff is Sylvania, 6SL7 or otherwise, and I've found most of them to be pretty reliable, good-sounding tubes.

I do feel the need to state for the record, however, that I'm not too much of a tube roller. I feel that the circuit topology has so much more to do with tone than the brand or year or lot of tube that I just can't be bothered most of the time. I know there's a difference - that I won't deny - but it's usually so subtle I'm never really sure when I've reached the point where I'm just imagining things.
 
#72
These guys seem to have quite a few in stock: http://www.vacuumtubes.net/RES Audio pages/6sl7.html

The Mullards are quite expensive I see... Those red base RCA's look the business and seem to be a bit more affordable, though.

The REDDI vs VT thread pulled me in, I want some of that tubey goodness and my DHA tube pre isn't giving it (24V plate voltage to 12AX7s).

I am starting to dream up a new fantasy preamp. Two channel tube preamp using 3 6SL7's (1 for each 2 stage channel and possibly 1 as a phase inverter feeding a small output transformer) and a proper power supply (toroidal transformer). Footswitch to change channels. Gain, bass, treble and level controls per channel. Very similar to a B15 preamp I guess, but with switchable channels and possibly a little more gain per stage. Sigh... nice to dream.
 
#73
beans-on-toast said:
Link Removed has some nice visual info on 6SL7's. Another one is Invalid Link Removed.

Their library images are a good reference for identifying tubes and helps weed out relabeled ones.
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Nice.

From the pictures in Tube World, the pair of Sylvanias that wcriley donated to my cause (wedding gift! If anyone's looking for ideas ;)) are mid-1950's. One is chrome topped, the other not, but they're both black base-green logo of that era. The Tung Sol I have is a noticeably bigger tube, yet has short plates. Hrrrm.
 
#74
Lo-E said:
And he's right. Just about all the JAN Philips stuff is Sylvania, 6SL7 or otherwise, and I've found most of them to be pretty reliable, good-sounding tubes.

I do feel the need to state for the record, however, that I'm not too much of a tube roller. I feel that the circuit topology has so much more to do with tone than the brand or year or lot of tube that I just can't be bothered most of the time. I know there's a difference - that I won't deny - but it's usually so subtle I'm never really sure when I've reached the point where I'm just imagining things.
Click to expand...

I completely agree. I mostly disregard comments i read about how a tube sounds where there isnt a reference circuit mentioned.
 
#77
Lo-E said:
And he's right. Just about all the JAN Philips stuff is Sylvania, 6SL7 or otherwise, and I've found most of them to be pretty reliable, good-sounding tubes.

I do feel the need to state for the record, however, that I'm not too much of a tube roller. I feel that the circuit topology has so much more to do with tone than the brand or year or lot of tube that I just can't be bothered most of the time. I know there's a difference - that I won't deny - but it's usually so subtle I'm never really sure when I've reached the point where I'm just imagining things.
Click to expand...
I can dig it and I used to be the exact same way until I got that REDDI ;) I figured I'd pop for a $35 NOS 6N1P, and it ramped up the Ampegginess to where I could actually tell the difference in a mix from the stock Sovtek, which would probably be more universally liked in the REDDI than the NOS tube...a little smoother, a little more compressed. But honestly, I don't ever recall hearing big differences in tubes before the REDDI. At the moment I'm chalking it up to making lateral moves with the more basic GE/RCA/Sylvania NOS tubes. BTW, glad to get a little backup for my tube guru. He really seems ultra knowledgeable but you just never know ;)

So this thread came along at a good time since I blew a preamp tube in my B-15 2 seconds before we were supposed to start. I set up and test it out and it's great. I go back to start and nothing. Ended up having our soundman run me in the monitor for the first set and using my PF350 for the rest of the night. He had me really bright but man that REDDI sounds awesome.

But I digress...turned out to be V1 just went totally dead on me. I thought it was the power tubes at first, and I made a huge mistake...I went for the RCA's in my 73 Super Reverb. Awesome tubes with almost 40 years in the same amp. And one of them lost its vacuum when I pulled it out. But I finally got it sorted, and that was my last 6SL7, so now I have to buy some more, and I might as well get good ones and see how that goes. A little disappointed that the one that went out I just got 4 months ago to replace one that had a little over 3 years on it. If Sylvania were still making tubes, I'd trash them publicly.

;)
 
#78
Oobly said:
These guys seem to have quite a few in stock: http://www.vacuumtubes.net/RES Audio pages/6sl7.html

The Mullards are quite expensive I see... Those red base RCA's look the business and seem to be a bit more affordable, though.

The REDDI vs VT thread pulled me in, I want some of that tubey goodness and my DHA tube pre isn't giving it (24V plate voltage to 12AX7s).

I am starting to dream up a new fantasy preamp. Two channel tube preamp using 3 6SL7's (1 for each 2 stage channel and possibly 1 as a phase inverter feeding a small output transformer) and a proper power supply (toroidal transformer). Footswitch to change channels. Gain, bass, treble and level controls per channel. Very similar to a B15 preamp I guess, but with switchable channels and possibly a little more gain per stage. Sigh... nice to dream.
Click to expand...
Well if you can live without switchable channels and one less 6SL7, the Jule Amps Monique is a badass preamp in the B-15 tradition, and he just came out with a cheaper rackmount version. Still close to a grand, but better than the $1300 it costs with a metal cage. Metal cage looks cooler, though. I went for the REDDI because I use Ampegs and all I needed was a DI, but you might find the Monique cool.

OTOH, I'm an Ampeg endorser, so quit screwing around and just get a B-15 ;)
 
#79
There are tube sellers who will never discuss the sonic properties. It can be your imagination or your excellent hearing or the quality of the preamp or amp that obscures or enhances the tube's tonal effect on a circuit.

When rolling the comparisons could be between batches. Those batches could be separated by decades. They could all be made by a few manufacturers but to requested specs that differ greatly.

I have a RI Tung Sol 12ax7 that makes noise like Niagara Falls. Between the sonic currents it is the most open, sweetest, full range 12ax7 I've ever had in my BBII or Summit. It's unusable.:) :(
 
#80
JimmyM said:
I can dig it and I used to be the exact same way until I got that REDDI ;) I figured I'd pop for a $35 NOS 6N1P, and it ramped up the Ampegginess to where I could actually tell the difference in a mix from the stock Sovtek, which would probably be more universally liked in the REDDI than the NOS tube...a little smoother, a little more compressed. But honestly, I don't ever recall hearing big differences in tubes before the REDDI. At the moment I'm chalking it up to making lateral moves with the more basic GE/RCA/Sylvania NOS tubes. BTW, glad to get a little backup for my tube guru. He really seems ultra knowledgeable but you just never know ;)

So this thread came along at a good time since I blew a preamp tube in my B-15 2 seconds before we were supposed to start. I set up and test it out and it's great. I go back to start and nothing. Ended up having our soundman run me in the monitor for the first set and using my PF350 for the rest of the night. He had me really bright but man that REDDI sounds awesome.

But I digress...turned out to be V1 just went totally dead on me. I thought it was the power tubes at first, and I made a huge mistake...I went for the RCA's in my 73 Super Reverb. Awesome tubes with almost 40 years in the same amp. And one of them lost its vacuum when I pulled it out. But I finally got it sorted, and that was my last 6SL7, so now I have to buy some more, and I might as well get good ones and see how that goes. A little disappointed that the one that went out I just got 4 months ago to replace one that had a little over 3 years on it. If Sylvania were still making tubes, I'd trash them publicly.

;)
Click to expand...

Whatcha gonna try first? What are the likely candidates?
 

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