Let's talk about repertoire...

[WrapRough]

In my previous bass life before an 8 year hiatus, I learned the instrument purely through songs and TAB. I had a pretty huge repertoire. Of course I didn't understand anything, but I could bust out a lot of songs!

Since my return, I have focused on theory, and its application on the instrument. However, lately I have been feeling like I have no real repertoire, and most of the songs I knew inside out I can barely remember now. I plan on trying to balance the two aspects of playing, so I thought I would start a discussion on what people think about building a repertoire, how much time people spend on it etc...

Any thoughts welcome!

 

[darren1970]

My repertoire is two-fold.
Firstly the set lists for the covers band I play with ( Alt-rock and Pop-punk ).
Secondly, the repertoire I build to expand my technique, songs that will either stretch me musically or use techniques that I don't use in a band ( mainly slap and a touch of tapping ).

 

[JRA]

Any thoughts welcome!

if you learn how to decipher standard notation = instant mega-repertoire.

just knowing how to equate/link a note on the page with a location on your fingerboard is huge. you don't have to sight-read, per se, you just have to know how to link the two locations. and standard notation gives you rhythm info along with the correct notes, of course. after that, playing anything up-to-speed is just practice as usual. this "deciphering" skill also fills in the lack of "understanding" gaps, too!

there are great players on TB who use only their ears (can't/don't read), but some of them are 'savants' who work their asses off to deliver the good stuff. learning a little about standard notation (how to read/decipher) can save you a lot of time, now and down the road...in case you're not 'brilliant'!

good luck with your repertoire!

 

[mambo4]

My repertoire has always been whatever the next gig requires, plus the odd bass line I chose to learn because I liked it. Honestly a small repertoire is one of my biggest shortcomings, I wish I had spent more time building it. But I do make a habit of really reverse engineering the tunes I learn, so I understand what kind of chord progression the bass line supports and where the ideas might apply in a new situation. Which notes are roots or chord tones, and which are passing or chromatic? what are the chords doing functionally ( roman numerals) ? My copy of Standing in The Shadows of Motown and Carol Kaye books are riddled with penciled in notes about the scale degrees being used. This vocabulary building aspect is the primary use of repertoire IMHO.

from that point of view some songs are more useful as vocabulary builders, because the chord progression is more common. 12 bar blues, rhythm changes, Autumn Leaves, Stand By Me...google common chord progressions for a list

And a big +1 to learning to decipher notation of course

 

[WrapRough]

if you learn how to decipher standard notation = instant mega-repertoire.

just knowing how to equate/link a note on the page with a location on your fingerboard is huge. you don't have to sight-read, per se, you just have to know how to link the two locations. and standard notation gives you rhythm info along with the correct notes, of course. after that, playing anything up-to-speed is just practice as usual. this "deciphering" skill also fills in the lack of "understanding" gaps, too!

there are great players on TB who use only their ears (can't/don't read), but some of them are 'savants' who work their asses off to deliver the good stuff. learning a little about standard notation (how to read/decipher) can save you a lot of time, now and down the road...in case you're not 'brilliant'!

good luck with your repertoire!

oh that's a work in progress. I am currently learning to sight-read and am doing weekly transcription studies, so all good there. I could definitely figure out the song, but I just dont have that many songs under my fingers anymore, and I guess it makes me a bit sad Use it or lose, it, eh?

 

[WrapRough]

My repertoire has always been whatever the next gig requires, plus the odd bass line I chose to learn because I liked it. Honestly a small repertoire is one of my biggest shortcomings, I wish I had spent more time building it. But I do make a habit of really reverse engineering the tunes I learn, so I understand what kind of chord progression the bass line supports and where the ideas might apply in a new situation. Which notes are roots or chord tones, and which are passing or chromatic? what are the chords doing functionally ( roman numerals) ? My copy of Standing in The Shadows of Motown and Carol Kaye books are riddled with penciled in notes about the scale degrees being used. This vocabulary building aspect is the primary use of repertoire IMHO.

And a big +1 to learning to decipher notation of course

I try to learn songs now that have a use. So, as said above a technique that I want to work on. I like the idea of picking apart the song and understanding how the theory I am learning applies. I'll definitely start doing that

 

[CallMeAl]

Whatever I do in the woodshed, I set my goals and then allocate daily practice time accordingly.

So in your case, I might decide to do
20 min theory
20 min learning new songs
20 min maintaining old songs

Obviously there are more goals you can add (singing, scales, improv etc, etc.) and times don’t have to be symmetrical (30 min new songs, 10 min maintenance) and total time is flexible (could be 30 min, 2 hr, whatever you have)…but that’s my basic skeleton.

In my own routine, I agree a repertoire is a priority. I took a good time off “repertoire” to work on walking Jazz lines, and had to reset after a month to refocus on songs.

 

[Snarf]

if you learn how to decipher standard notation = instant mega-repertoire.

Respectfully disagree on this point. If OP is seeking to build a large repertoire of pop music of all types, finding stems for these is fairly difficult. When I learn rep, it's by ear (I've got a very strong background in ear training and harmony so this is a very fast process), and if I'm learning something with a very specific bass line that I don't anticipate playing all that often, I will transcribe the song and file it away with my hundreds of transcriptions.

Once you get good enough with your ear, you could easily spend more time searching for music to read than it would take to just do it on your own. If you write the stems yourself, that's all the better. Writing helps reading.

 

[WrapRough]

Respectfully disagree on this point. If OP is seeking to build a large repertoire of pop music of all types, finding stems for these is fairly difficult. When I learn rep, it's by ear (I've got a very strong background in ear training and harmony so this is a very fast process), and if I'm learning something with a very specific bass line that I don't anticipate playing all that often, I will transcribe the song and file it away with my hundreds of transcriptions.

Once you get good enough with your ear, you could easily spend more time searching for music to read than it would take to just do it on your own. If you write the stems yourself, that's all the better. Writing helps reading.

I hear you. When I search for some songs, I just get someones transcription, which is good. But that's work that I could be doing to improve, so I try and learn it by ear. Problem is I am just not good enough yet for some songs. Others are easy, of course. It'll come

 

[JRA]

Respectfully disagree on this point. If OP is seeking to build a large repertoire of pop music of all types, finding stems for these is fairly difficult. When I learn rep, it's by ear (I've got a very strong background in ear training and harmony so this is a very fast process), and if I'm learning something with a very specific bass line that I don't anticipate playing all that often, I will transcribe the song and file it away with my hundreds of transcriptions. Once you get good enough with your ear, you could easily spend more time searching for music to read than it would take to just do it on your own. If you write the stems yourself, that's all the better. Writing helps reading.

i can't disagree with the last bit, and i won't quibble about the rest: i hope i was making a broader point about an important skill, and even at that: the OP is apparently on his game --- he already knew that!

 

[Bob_Ross]

if you learn how to decipher standard notation = instant mega-repertoire.

In theory, yes...in practice, not so much.
I don't want to dwell on this quote, as your "broader point" is greatly appreciated and its value can't be underestimated. But it makes me want to share my personal experience:

I got out of undergrad music school 40 years ago, equipped with the skills to be able to walk into nearly any musical situation and Get The Job Done, so long as there was a part to read on the music stand.

And then in the years since then I learned that there isn't always going to be a part on the stand...or even a stand! Building a Repertoire relies on skills other than reading; it definitely relies on having fast, accurate ears, but it especially relies on having a reliable memory retention system for accessing the library of tunes in your head.

Music school and the subsequent decades as a professional bassist did an admirable job preparing my ears for that former skill, but sadly little to prep that latter skill. In short, my tune memory sucks. To this day, no matter how many times I've played "Mustang Sally" or "Celebration" et al I still have a moment of panic when those old chestnuts get called on the bandstand during which I frantically prime my brain to recall the feel and starting pitch. God help me when I get sucked into accepting gigs playing a lot of jazz standards, because I can probably list the tunes I know sans leadsheets on one hand. Repertoire is my weakness, absolutely, and having the ears to be able to fake it is a small comfort. Very small. And having the reading chops to be able to play any of those tunes is just tangential baggage if there aren't any charts onstage.

If I could go back in time and give 20-year-old me some advice, I'd definitely say "learn tunes!"

(Also "trust compound interest")

 

[LBS-bass]

For me there's repertoire and then there's goal-oriented material. Most of the latter I don't expect to ever play in a band (but it would be fun if I did).

Repertoire is just what the bands I work with want to play. How deep I get into the weeds with it depends on how hard it is. If it's pop covers, I pretty much have to learn it solid. If it's blues standards, knowing the form and the basic fingering style is good enough.

What I find with committing repertoire to memory is that too much of this can put you in an interesting place. Bands don't all play the same song the same way. Some of them stick with the recorded keys, some shift keys drastically to accommodate someone's limited singing range. Some change the arrangements. It can be hard to remember who does what in which way so I prep for shows as they come up and that means that the way I play a song can change from one show to the next.

But really, if you're playing out, learning the band's material is your best first step toward developing repertoire. It's probably more important to learn how to add new material quickly than it is to have a lot of specific songs under your belt.

 

[HelpImaRock]

I play in original bands so I generally only learn the songs of the group. I'll learn other songs I want to learn as they come up. But most of my practice is scales, arpeggios, and then band material.

 

[Polish Thunder]

I started playing bass around 3.5 years ago at the rip old age of 54 with no real musical backround. My goal was to play in a Blues/Blues Rock band. Basically playing and being part of the music I love.

I started out learning around 100 songs through tabs. Then, about 1.5 years ago, I started taking online lessons with an established blues bassist that has over 40 years experience as a pro and 20 years of teaching bass. Since he has done what I would like to do, I listen to what he had to say.

1. Learn basic music theory. The more, the better. You need to understand what you are playing and why.

2. Ear training, which includes hearing intervals, is important to learning songs. In my lessons, I started out learning easy songs by ear and progressively studied songs that were much more complicated.

3. Standard notation, especially sight reading, is not required or at least not one of the more critical areas to focus on. I do spend some time studying SN on my own and I am getting better at understanding it along with transcribing it.

I am in a Blues/Blues Rock band with guitar, drums, and keys...each member has at least 20 plus years experience. I got the gig by learning the songs on my own by ear. Not only were there not SN for any of the songs I had to learn for the audition, but pretty much there are no SN available for any of the songs we play. When we need to learn a new song, the BL sends out a YouTube video and we each learn that version on our own so that when we get together, we actually are able to play it together as a group.

So am I against reading Standard Notation? No. Is it required? It depends. It depends on what genre of music you play. For me, music theory and ear training is much more important than reading music.

When Darryl Jones auditioned for the Rolling Stones, is there anyone out there who thinks Keith and Mick handed Darryl some sheet music and said "Can you play this?". No, it was, "Here is a list of the songs we want you to play for us".

Here is a great interview with Chicago-bred bassist, Greg Rzab. He talks about playing with SRV, Buddy Guy, and now with John Mayall. Skip to the 4:30 mark to hear about his audition with the Stones.



BTW: I use a short hand similar to the Nashville Number System to document the songs I learned for future reference.

 

[Pings Bass]

if you learn how to decipher standard notation = instant mega-repertoire.

My repertoire has always been whatever the next gig requires

That's me in a nutshell. Granted for pop/rock you often can't find transcriptions. So I do my own, which is also very good practice.

 

[JRA]

In theory, yes...in practice, not so much.
I don't want to dwell on this quote, as your "broader point" is greatly appreciated and its value can't be underestimated. But it makes me want to share my personal experience: I got out of undergrad music school 40 years ago, equipped with the skills to be able to walk into nearly any musical situation and Get The Job Done, so long as there was a part to read on the music stand. And then in the years since then I learned that there isn't always going to be a part on the stand...or even a stand! Building a Repertoire relies on skills other than reading; it definitely relies on having fast, accurate ears, but it especially relies on having a reliable memory retention system for accessing the library of tunes in your head. Music school and the subsequent decades as a professional bassist did an admirable job preparing my ears for that former skill, but sadly little to prep that latter skill. In short, my tune memory sucks. To this day, no matter how many times I've played "Mustang Sally" or "Celebration" et al I still have a moment of panic when those old chestnuts get called on the bandstand during which I frantically prime my brain to recall the feel and starting pitch. God help me when I get sucked into accepting gigs playing a lot of jazz standards, because I can probably list the tunes I know sans leadsheets on one hand. Repertoire is my weakness, absolutely, and having the ears to be able to fake it is a small comfort. Very small. And having the reading chops to be able to play any of those tunes is just tangential baggage if there aren't any charts onstage. If I could go back in time and give 20-year-old me some advice, I'd definitely say "learn tunes!"

i wouldn't argue or quibble your experience in a million years, bob! and i can relate to that experience in my own way. i'm more reliant on sheets these days than i ever was when my memory was 'agile'. and "great ears" doesn't help me much when i have the pickup notes/line to the 'new-to-us tune' we haven't played in a month!
"who brings us in?"
"you do!"


i don't think reading/"deciphering" replaces other skills. i think it's an additional skill that aids and abets all the others and makes short work of certain tasks...in my case = i don't have to remember as much! FWIW: i interpreted the OP's 'distress' as similar, ergo my comments. i didn't realize he was already working on that.

(Also "trust compound interest")

yeah, who knew?

 

[Mechanical]

Respectfully disagree on this point. If OP is seeking to build a large repertoire of pop music of all types, finding stems for these is fairly difficult.

There's Musicnotes, MuseScore, Sheetmusicplus, Music and Arts, etc. Plenty of places to find sheet music.

Learning to read is probably the best way to learn songs since that's the way every other instrument (piano, cello, trumpet, etc.) is taught in a formal setting. Remembering them is easier because you bring in the visual element as well as the aural element.

That said, learning to transcribe (writing to learn to read as well as ear training) is invaluable.

For my repertoire, I learn songs if the sheet music is available. If it isn't, like The Omnific stuff I'm learning, I will transcribe it and check it against the recording. It also makes me develop my technique.

But as @CallMeAl says, separate your practice routine to learn and recall songs.

 

[DeepThoughts]

"Knowing " the song is about being able to sing it. Understanding the time feel.
There is no short cut to this. Listening is required. ( I suggest without your instrument)
In most contemporary genres the changes aren't that numerous and can be internalized after a pass or 2. The real challenge can come in the arrangement/song form ( intro/verse/chorus/etc) of a long setlist and in this simple notes can help. Just my 2 cents...Good luck and keep it low !

 

[Alexis Duntov]

Writing helps reading.

Huge.

 

[Snarf]

There's Musicnotes, MuseScore, Sheetmusicplus, Music and Arts, etc. Plenty of places to find sheet music.

Ugh, no. Most of what I've seen posted on those sites are totally inaccurate. Or I see three-staff piano-vocal charts that are big, unwieldy, and again, inaccurate.