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Let's talk about repertoire...
- Thread starter WrapRough
- Start date
In my experience this is true more often than not. Use those websites with caution, you are bound to find mistakes. At the same time, it can be an educational experience finding and fixing them, but at that point you might be better off just transcribing it yourself.
-Cal.
If you have the ears to recognize the errors, you can fix them. But if you have that kind of ear, you don't need these sites. The people I know who mainly rely on this kind of thing always play the errors and will fight tooth and nail for the right to play the wrong chords.
Alright so just for kicks I looked at the RnB bass section of Musicnotes. Actually somewhat pleasantly surprised, but I would never use the kinds of charts they publish on a gig. They are all 3 staves, which makes for long charts, which makes DSing and repeating a chore, and makes it much easier to make a mistake.
Of course, I have a very specific requirement for any chart that I use: ease of readability on a gig. 2 pages max, unless it's some kind of crazy one-off request where nothing repeats (I'm looking at you, Paradise By The Dashboard Light). So the stuff that I found on the site will probably work for a lot of people. Certainly not for me.
Of course, I have a very specific requirement for any chart that I use: ease of readability on a gig. 2 pages max, unless it's some kind of crazy one-off request where nothing repeats (I'm looking at you, Paradise By The Dashboard Light). So the stuff that I found on the site will probably work for a lot of people. Certainly not for me.
I use a certain chart site when I need quick charts for other players. I don't usually use them but if I'm bringing in a sub or a guest I will grab the best chart I can, transpose it on the site (if needed, often it is because CAPO), copy out the text and paste into into a Word document, then fix whatever errors are there. That keeps me from having to do the whole thing from scratch. That's about the only use I have for them.
So about the whole learning standard notation (SN) thing. I already knew how to read SN long before playing bass and I can also play by ear. That meant that I was always slow to learning TAB and I'm still admittedly bad at reading them. Usually it's the other way around! 
One of my regrets is that I didn't keep up the music I learned when I took piano lessons as a kid. Some of it (Chopin's Scherzo #2 is one that really bugs me), was many months of woodshedding to learn, and would've taken just the occasional revisit to maintain. But at this point it'd probably be months to get it back again.
On the other hand, I've also committed myself that kind of maintenance work before, only to eventually decide I was wasting time on something long after the reason to care about it was gone.... It's not so easy to predict what you're going to care about, I guess.
On the other hand, I've also committed myself that kind of maintenance work before, only to eventually decide I was wasting time on something long after the reason to care about it was gone.... It's not so easy to predict what you're going to care about, I guess.
For me, unless it's in an active set list, my repertoire lives on a tablet. Part of my process for learning any song is to create a quick and easy to read chart. Once I really get a song down, I can usually pick up my notes and be back on top of the song in a few minutes, years after playing it for the project it was learned for. I've learned very few songs "just because" but have a catalog of over 600 songs at my fingertips. I tend to build my library by learning as many songs as I can for new auditions. I try to get their whole playlist and learn as much as I can. I figure if one band is playing it out, others might as well.
As far a mixing practice skills, I'm probably a very bad example. I do very little technical work (scales, arpeggios, etc) in my practice sessions. I tend to work on that stuff as a song requires. My practice sessions tend to focus on either learning/tightening up new songs or maintaining known ones that are in an active rotation. I'm now working with 3 bands, so I have a lot to maintain (nearly 200 songs). When I don't have a pending gig or new material to learn, I might throw on something like Pandora and just play along with whatever pops up in one of my channels. Kind of like a personal jam session. I've probably figured out another 50 songs (with no formal charts) doing this and this is just fun for me (it's important to have a little fun now and then).
As far a mixing practice skills, I'm probably a very bad example. I do very little technical work (scales, arpeggios, etc) in my practice sessions. I tend to work on that stuff as a song requires. My practice sessions tend to focus on either learning/tightening up new songs or maintaining known ones that are in an active rotation. I'm now working with 3 bands, so I have a lot to maintain (nearly 200 songs). When I don't have a pending gig or new material to learn, I might throw on something like Pandora and just play along with whatever pops up in one of my channels. Kind of like a personal jam session. I've probably figured out another 50 songs (with no formal charts) doing this and this is just fun for me (it's important to have a little fun now and then).
I build repertoire by learning songs. Kind of a "duh" statement, but it is the truth, and there's another spin. I play church gigs, and in a bunch of locations - every weekend I'm not on vacation, I'm playing somewhere. Most weekends (not all) I'm learning a new song or two; the other songs I'm playing are often in different keys, or we're doing a different arrangement or feel than the way I've played it before. In the past I played in bands with a fixed repertoire - you locked in an arrangement of a tune, in one key, and never changed it. What I do now is harder, but also has made me a much better musician.
I have noticed, over the last few years, that learning songs has become easier and faster - the more you learn songs, the faster you can learn them - it's a "muscle" like anything else. The other thing of note is that I have good motivation to learn new songs - Sunday is coming, I can't postpone it, and on that day, there will be an audience there to observe how well I have prepared. I start with chord charts, play the tunes through while looking at the chart; making sure I've got things in my brain. Once I start to have things figured out, I'll look away, and then put away the chart - I make myself a one page set of notes about where I come in on a tune, and the first few notes I have to hit. That's a good step - I practice off of that until I really know the stuff, and then I practice without any hints (often I'll even close my eyes - trying to literally program the material into my fingers). At the gig, I take out my one page of notes - just in case, but I seldom look at it other than for what tune is next.
Theory is nice, and helpful in some ways (I want to fancy this up, what inversion would work here?), but repetition helps build your "learning muscle" and your ears - what I call "notes falling under your fingers" - you hear what you're supposed to play, and because your ear is well trained, you can just play it without fumbling. There are no real substitutes for putting the time and effort in.
Oh, and...TAB? Tab does not exist in my world. I've never had someone put that in front of me or online as a learning aid. Chord charts, sure, Nashville numbers, yes, but Tab - nope.
I have noticed, over the last few years, that learning songs has become easier and faster - the more you learn songs, the faster you can learn them - it's a "muscle" like anything else. The other thing of note is that I have good motivation to learn new songs - Sunday is coming, I can't postpone it, and on that day, there will be an audience there to observe how well I have prepared. I start with chord charts, play the tunes through while looking at the chart; making sure I've got things in my brain. Once I start to have things figured out, I'll look away, and then put away the chart - I make myself a one page set of notes about where I come in on a tune, and the first few notes I have to hit. That's a good step - I practice off of that until I really know the stuff, and then I practice without any hints (often I'll even close my eyes - trying to literally program the material into my fingers). At the gig, I take out my one page of notes - just in case, but I seldom look at it other than for what tune is next.
Theory is nice, and helpful in some ways (I want to fancy this up, what inversion would work here?), but repetition helps build your "learning muscle" and your ears - what I call "notes falling under your fingers" - you hear what you're supposed to play, and because your ear is well trained, you can just play it without fumbling. There are no real substitutes for putting the time and effort in.
Oh, and...TAB? Tab does not exist in my world. I've never had someone put that in front of me or online as a learning aid. Chord charts, sure, Nashville numbers, yes, but Tab - nope.
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Yeah, repertoire.
I don't really retain songs that well. If I don't practice a song for a few months, it seeps out of my memory.
A while back I was playing in three bands and each one was always adding new songs. Each band practiced every week and played out at least once a month, so I had maybe 150 songs at my fingertips. Today I can only remember a handful of those songs. The guitar player/singer for one of those bands seemed to be able to remember every song ever written.
For myself these days, I find learning to sing the song, even if it doesn't have words, helps a lot. I'll also try to learn it on the piano and that helps. I'm also doing some reharmonizations of songs for my current project which also gets me deeper into the material so it seems to stick better.
In conclusion, anything that works for you is going to help, but always try to remember, music is fun.
I don't really retain songs that well. If I don't practice a song for a few months, it seeps out of my memory.
A while back I was playing in three bands and each one was always adding new songs. Each band practiced every week and played out at least once a month, so I had maybe 150 songs at my fingertips. Today I can only remember a handful of those songs. The guitar player/singer for one of those bands seemed to be able to remember every song ever written.
For myself these days, I find learning to sing the song, even if it doesn't have words, helps a lot. I'll also try to learn it on the piano and that helps. I'm also doing some reharmonizations of songs for my current project which also gets me deeper into the material so it seems to stick better.
In conclusion, anything that works for you is going to help, but always try to remember, music is fun.
I understand what you're saying, but for what I do, chord charts (as a learning aid, at the gig I have the chord structure memorized) are actually better. I'm there to play something that goes with/adds to the vibe of what's going on in the room, what the drummer is feeling, what I'm getting off the lead vocalist, etc. The exact notes and rhythm information on sheet music are not what I'm called to play, and would often be the wrong feel if I played them.
My memory is abysmal. I know most of the material my band does and a few old nuggets that I really enjoyed playing.
It takes me a lot of time to learn new stuff well enough to sing while playing. I rarely go near a mic, but being able to sing the words means you know the tune
It takes me a lot of time to learn new stuff well enough to sing while playing. I rarely go near a mic, but being able to sing the words means you know the tune
On my tablet I have over 500 songs that I play or have played in the past.
Unfortunately I have a pretty crap memory.
There's probably 100 or more songs with easy to remember progressions that I can play without looking at a chart, but there are so many that I need to at least glance at the chart, even if only to remember the progression for the bridge. On the pretty rare occasion we do a gig I just need a few hours with the set list in the week before to be able to do the gig without charts. I've gradually been redoing my charts over the last couple of years to show the chord scale degree rather than chord names. This has helped particularly with songs that I've played in different bands in different keys....... I just have to ask what key we're in sometimes (quite often
)
Unfortunately I have a pretty crap memory.
There's probably 100 or more songs with easy to remember progressions that I can play without looking at a chart, but there are so many that I need to at least glance at the chart, even if only to remember the progression for the bridge. On the pretty rare occasion we do a gig I just need a few hours with the set list in the week before to be able to do the gig without charts. I've gradually been redoing my charts over the last couple of years to show the chord scale degree rather than chord names. This has helped particularly with songs that I've played in different bands in different keys....... I just have to ask what key we're in sometimes (quite often
)
I envy the guitarist in my band, who seemingly knows every song in the (classic/contemporary) rock realm. I can hardly remember any song I ever learned, and constantly need to relearn it.
Having said that, I wanna do a deep dive into ZZ Top's early repertoire, just cos I have an itch to scratch. But yeah, usually my "repertoire" is whatever is on my current band's playlist.
Having said that, I wanna do a deep dive into ZZ Top's early repertoire, just cos I have an itch to scratch. But yeah, usually my "repertoire" is whatever is on my current band's playlist.
I wouldn't worry about that too much. What I have found is that if you have a solid understanding of the instrument, and generally understand (and can hear) how most chord progressions are headed, I can pick stuff up quickly. Probably 95% of my practice time is spent on technique, intonation, and scale/interval/arpeggio drills, and very little time on learning tunes. I may be in the extreme, but chops and tone (IMO) are more important than learning tunes.oh that's a work in progress. I am currently learning to sight-read and am doing weekly transcription studies, so all good there. I could definitely figure out the song, but I just dont have that many songs under my fingers anymore, and I guess it makes me a bit sadUse it or lose, it, eh?
Hmm, for me, repertoire is the songs I play on gigs. If I'm in a band, I learn those songs. But I know tons of theory and can read well enough that my "repertoire" is actually any song that might come my way in any situation (a jam, an audition, whatever). I guess I don't think of having a repertoire on bass the same way I had a repertiore as a classical guitarist in college.
Bass is my second instrument; keys are primary. I get myself out to a "friends of" acoustic duo regularly that has a huge rep. It's a hot seat where sometimes I'm trying to play songs I'm not even familiar with. I get asked up often for entire sets. I do make a point of listening and figuring out some of the songs later.
It depends in a way on your goals and who you work with. I can read and have done some writing and a little arranging and some sessions. But most of my focus has been in a band setting and even when playing as a hired gun not everyone could read or communicate properly.
I had the good fortune of a really mean violin teacher. I can read and have studied theory not to the level of an earned degree but I did study at the college level as electives on top of years of instruction in technique and theory.
So I can get by and at least not be totally helpless among pros.
Here’s the thingy. If you want to understand what other people are doing and/or communicate your musical thoughts with others there needs to be a common language. You can doodle and hack your way to a really good progression or you can start from point A and plot your notes. Same end result perhaps.
What I find fascinating, having played with more studious musicians and nearly untrained players is that when you hear something that you think shouldn’t work but does, there is always a mode. And knowing what that is before you have to show someone the positions or tabs is never a disadvantage.
It may or may not make you a better bassist but it will help you become a more complete musician.
I had the good fortune of a really mean violin teacher. I can read and have studied theory not to the level of an earned degree but I did study at the college level as electives on top of years of instruction in technique and theory.
So I can get by and at least not be totally helpless among pros.
Here’s the thingy. If you want to understand what other people are doing and/or communicate your musical thoughts with others there needs to be a common language. You can doodle and hack your way to a really good progression or you can start from point A and plot your notes. Same end result perhaps.
What I find fascinating, having played with more studious musicians and nearly untrained players is that when you hear something that you think shouldn’t work but does, there is always a mode. And knowing what that is before you have to show someone the positions or tabs is never a disadvantage.
It may or may not make you a better bassist but it will help you become a more complete musician.
devnulljp
Supporting Member
Always jealous of those guys that know 1000 songs, and have no idea how they do it.
I don't have a lot of memorised stuff in the tank, but I have a pretty good ear, a pretty good grasp of theory and can at least fake my way though most things, and come up with appropriate lines for original material based on all that as needed.
I an read a jazz chart and take it from there, or watch the guitar player's hands, or just listen.
I don't have a lot of memorised stuff in the tank, but I have a pretty good ear, a pretty good grasp of theory and can at least fake my way though most things, and come up with appropriate lines for original material based on all that as needed.
I an read a jazz chart and take it from there, or watch the guitar player's hands, or just listen.
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