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Liability Insurance

#42
electracoyote said:
Well, it was still only supplemental income for me at best, but I was charging clients around $1,500.00 on average for upscale gigs (split among six band members). I felt an annual $250.00 professional liability premium was a worthwhile investment and got us in the door at some of the venues my band wanted to play. I can totally understand a band not wanting to cut into their pay for one gig where insurance was required.



It's ridiculous. My wife just defended a boiler repairman in a boiler explosion case where a person got injured. Only problem: Her client had never touched or even been near the boiler in question. He had been on the property in the past servicing other boilers and had it all documented. Too bad buddy, you're a pro, you've been on the property, you must have had something to do with this boiler explosion. Crazy.
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I'll bet the boiler repairman didn't work for "exposure", a few free beers, or $100 minus travel etc. either. And HE likely doesn't actually pay for his insurance either, it's factored in to his service call fee unlike the aforementioned musicians trying to get a spot at a festival. Apples and oranges.
 
#43
Hmm...on the surface the whole premise sounds kinda stupid but.....if someone trips on a speaker cable and gets hurt, who are they going after? If a speaker cab falls and breaks somebody's foot (this really happened, just to my drummer LOL)? Some kid grabs a power cable and gets zapped? Murphy's Law. BTW, it's a little known fact that the aforementioned "Mr. Murphy" was an ancient ancestor of mine. His name was actually Murphy Gibson, and he dropped the surname in hopes of distancing himself from "Gibson Luck." :)
 
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#44
hermetic said:
Insurance has got to be the biggest boondoggle ever foisted upon the foibles of mankind.
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i disagree. my granddaughter was driving and she was hit by a car a few months ago. she had to have pins put in her wrist, and has had to undergo lots of PT and now needs another surgery. thank goodness the woman who hit her had a very large insurance policy, or my granddaughter, who was in college for medicine till she was hit, would be completely out of luck, unable to use her hand and in chronic pain for life.

i've been hit by speeding cars twice, and believe me, i was happy the other drivers had insurance. and a friend of mine had a horrible slip and fall due to a very slippery wet floor that wasn't marked, and he had to have spinal surgery to function. luckily the venue had insurance - it ran over $200,000.
 
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#46
gbrooding said:
Thanks guys, appreciate the input. Eventhelper.com would run us $208 for the day. We'll just add this to our fee and everyone is happy. I think I will look into the professional liability premium that was mentioned above.
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That's basically what my business does. We have liability coverage like any prudent business. But occasionally we got a client who asked for something totally ridiculous in terms of the amount of coverage they "required." Whenever that happened, we didn't get all bent out if shape. We just contacted our agent and he quoted us what the temporary increase would cost for that particular contract. We then added that +15% (to cover CIBPITA) into our fee.

Everybody got something they asked for. Win-Win. :thumbsup:
 
#47
Ric5 said:
Create a LLC (Limited Liability Corporation) for the band ... get contracts where the the band and not the individual is liable ... if the band gets sued then instantly dissolve the band and walk away
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Right, and be chased down by a process server. The liabilities of a dissolved entity fall onto the former owners, and if you formed it with the intention of evading creditors, it will be disregarded.

There are no loopholes here.
 
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#48
hotrodjohn said:
i wonder if my personal umbrella policy would cover me individually if something happened at a gig :cautious:
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Mine would. That was my first thought as well.

Honestly, I would push back against the event organizer. Simply tell that person "I have been doing this for (however many) years and never ever heard of that. Why doesn't the event have its own policy?"

Anther question is how much does the gig pay? If it pays a couple grand it MIGHT be worth looking into. If it's a few hundred to a grand, I'm not bothering.

All that being said, if I were to start a band from the ground up today with the intention of playing out regularly I would do the following.

1) Incorporate - Takes a few minutes to fill out an LLC form in most states and file it. You can buy the documents on line for cheap. That way, no matter what happens to the band your personal assets are protected.

2) Get a small business policy for about $500 a year.

A band is a business.

Even a hotdog stand owner has to jump through all kinds of hoops to insure for liability, incorporate, follow local and state business regulations, insure the public is being served clean food using clean tools. etc.

A friend of mine cuts my grass. He has an LLC, licenses, liability insurance, etc. All he does is "cut, kill and haul" (his words).

Why is a band any different?

In my view, this is not a one-show issue. If you play out 30 times a year, a $500 policy and a virtually free LLC filing are simple steps you can take to put a legal wall between you and you band. The band probably will own virtually no assets. The band should intentionally maintain a checking account that has a balance near zero. Nothing to sue for and they can't touch any of your personal assets.

Also, an umbrella policy is stupid cheap. Everyone should have one. It pretty much protects you for "everything else" not covered in other policies.
 
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#49
I created an LLC for a software business ... very little cost and very little paper work ... that way my personal assets are protected ...

But any venue that asks me for insurance just lost me ... the music business already pays too poorly ... adding more costs just makes it worse ...
 
#50
The thing everyone talking about forming an LLC needs to remember is that the purpose of an LLC is to protect the owner of a business from negligence by employees (and also, partners from each others' negligence)--it most certainly does NOT protect you from you own personal negligence.

If you, personally, take your fancy wireless system out on the floor, and you, personally, clobber an old lady with your dance moves, then you, personally, can be sued. If your band is an LLC and you are an employee or member, then the LLC can also be sued, but your bandmates cannot (with exceptions). If your band is a general partnership (which most are) then the band can be sued and your bandmates held liable. If your BL is smart, and has formed an LLC with himself as the sole member, and is paying all of you by 1099, then the band can't be sued--just you, personally.
 
#51
I know this is somewhat unrelated, but I used to travel to various festivals doing raku pottery demonstrations. We carried un-glazed pots, a portable kiln capable of reaching over 2000 degrees, a huge fan, several large propane tanks, and a 55 gallon drum full of sawdust. It was quite a show to watch. We pulled pots from the kiln at 2000 degrees and played with them in the barrel of sawdust creating a lot of fire, embers, and smoke. Some events required us to provide a certificate of insurance before they would even accept our application. Others never asked. Needless to say we did carry a $2,000,000 liability policy just in case something went terribly wrong. It never did but it did give us peace of mind knowing we were covered.
In the over 30 years that I played music no venue we played at ever asked us to provide insurance even when our band was the headline act. I even provided the sound for a lot of bands in a lot of places including bars, outdoor gigs, and small town festivals. No one ever asked me about insurance.
It is a different world we live in now. People are all too eager to sue over any little thing that they think might net them some easy cash. And there are a lot of sleazy lawyers willing to accommodate them. I recently attended an outdoor event with a sound guy that must have had his head up his ass, because the sound coming from his system was so loud that it could cause permanent ear damage. He should have gotten a clue from the people sitting a half a block from the stage... I can see where he might need insurance if he keeps that up...

Just sayin...
 
#52
I am a lawyer. Liability insurance for this event doesn't make any sense. If your band does something that causes injury to a person or property at the event ...you having insurance isn't going to get the Chamber off the hook. It is total BS.

Now--insurance to cover you if injured or your equipment is a different story. Perhaps this is what they (the Chamber) are on about?
 
#56
Ric5 said:
What the bleep!!!

What could a band possible be liable for??? sucking? playing badly? singing off key?

The only thing I would consider insuring would be band equipment in case of theft
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I recently played a gig where the warm-up band was performing. Their guitar player was piss drunk and kicked over a huge PA speaker that was not secured on the stage properly. Luckily when it fell it did not hit anybody in the audience. That could've been a major liability issue for the club, band and that guitar player personally.
 
#59
BassUrges said:
You having insurance does not provide the Chamber with a legal defense to a premises liability claim. But it DOES give them a pot of money from which to seek contribution or indemnity in the event that the band is at fault.

Not BS at all.
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That is a valid point. I suppose they need to be paying that band a buttload of money if they want to make the band partially liable for someone getting hurt by sound equipment falling on someone. I really can't see a viable scenario where the band's insurance would likely get touched. I hope the local bands give this Chamber the cold shoulder. It is BS in my opinion.
 
#60
your renters insurance is your personal liability insurance. No one is going to sue the band, except possibly the chamber of commerce. What are you guys running a pyro show inside?

But what the hell get the insurance and raise your rates to play. Heck, go ahead and break something.

I come from an insurance background, and I understand why people have insurance for a variety of weird stuff. I just cant think of a "scare story" for a band.
PA falls over? Venue.
stage collapses? venue
beer bottles? venue
band member gets beaten up? liability insurance doesn't help.
band member beats someone else up? liability insurance doesn't help.

band doesnt show up? Chamber of commerce calls bands liability insurance company?
 
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