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Lighting things on fire during a gig?

#61
Fassa Albrecht said:
Fire CAN be controlled. I went to see Rush a couple of months back and there were flamethrowers on top of the machines there that were incredibly powerful (I could feel the heat from halfway back).
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Right.

When Hendrix set his guitar on fire at the Monterey Pop Festival on a large outdoor stage, it was a pretty safe bet that he was not going to put lives in jeopardy.

I saw Kiss during their heydey in the late 70's at St. John's Arena, a basketball stadium at Ohio State University. I could feel the pillars of fire seated in the upper rows of the opposite end of the stadium. But Kiss arguably had some of the best pyrotechnics people in the business, in a very large building with high ceilings, again, a pretty safe bet they weren't going to burn the place down.

It's that unfortunate combination of too much boom, too little room, and incompetent pyrotechnics personnel that leads to tragedy. And most of the clubs we TB'ers are likely to find ourselves in should probably play it safe and not even go there.

It only takes one stupid with a flare gun.
 
#66
When I first got "in the biz" back in the mid 80s, I worked with a band that did pyros all the time, indoors and outdoors. We blew the front doors open at a club one time with the pyro kit. This was one of those kits that had the metal flash pots and mortars, and used multi pin cables from the control box to the business end of the thing and was lit with one of those electric matches. One time, one of the guys went to retrieve the mortar after we had fired them, and when he tilted it, the stray voltage in the match lit a little unused powder in the mortar and it went off in his hand. Another time, we were just getting ready to throw the switch when a sheriff stepped right over the mortar. Everyone was yelling to not fire off! Back when we were doing this, there were no real rules in place. Anyone could buy the stuff and use it. We even used the same kit when I was in high school for a play and set the stuff off with kids on the stage inside the gymnasium! I know how to make homemade flashpots still, but wouldnt do it for anything anymore.

BnB
 
#67
TC2112 said:
The Station nightclub fire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Although I'm very familiar with the incident, I've never read this before. A very tragic read. The thing I find most interesting is that the tour manager, Daniel Biechele, immediately owned up. He didn't try to hide his involvement, or shift blame. He took full responsibility. Meanwhile, the owners of the club, who appear to have broken many laws and violated many codes, didn't. They were just as guilty, if not more so and yet they plead No Contest and got lighter sentences than Biechele. At least a lot of the families of those lost recognized that Biechele took his responsibility seriously, and wrote letters on his behalf. Very tragic and sad.
 
#68
Not too long before the Rhode Island fire I was playing in a rock band that used propane flame towers as part of our act. Everyone involved - the people who made the rigs, the band members and the nightclubs in which we played - knew how well our stuff was put together as well as that we carried 5 fire extinguishers - 1 per band member and one for the pyro guy. Even fire marshalls checked out our show and gave us the green light. We never had any problems with our system. Everything was replaced on a regular basis - the hoses and controls as well as the pyro tanks. Never had a problem and we'd been using it for 6 months before the Station nightclub fire. Then after the fire we voluntarily retired the system. Of course everyone missed the pyros but everyone understood why...

The use of fire onstage is stupid unless extreme cautions are used knowing what can and will happen...
 
#69
MatticusMania said:
Not to a level of 100%, the thing with fire is that it is very unpredictable, thus the reason Im sure Rush had people trained in extinguishing fires on hand and ready to go.
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Thing is that you're never going to completely eliminate the risk any sort of stunt will pose, and NOT doing something because there's a risk (of any size) of something happening will write off pretty much anything remotely interesting on stage.



electracoyote said:
Right.
When Hendrix set his guitar on fire at the Monterey Pop Festival on a large outdoor stage, it was a pretty safe bet that he was not going to put lives in jeopardy.

I saw Kiss during their heydey in the late 70's at St. John's Arena, a basketball stadium at Ohio State University. I could feel the pillars of fire seated in the upper rows of the opposite end of the stadium. But Kiss arguably had some of the best pyrotechnics people in the business, in a very large building with high ceilings, again, a pretty safe bet they weren't going to burn the place down.

It's that unfortunate combination of too much boom, too little room, and incompetent pyrotechnics personnel that leads to tragedy. And most of the clubs we TB'ers are likely to find ourselves in should probably play it safe and not even go there.

It only takes one stupid with a flare gun.
Click to expand...

Fact is that there's been thousands of gigs with pyrotechnics which haven't burnt the place down. And yes, usually when something goes wrong, someone is to blame.
 
#70
Panda, We have a thread that discusses this and the aftermath in detail in the Misc. Section.

I implore you and anyone who has not read it to take a few minutes and do so. It will profoundly change the way you approach working and playing in a venue.

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f30/s...e-safety-discussion-407994/?highlight=station


There are really only a few key things to note.

The pyrotechnics set the ceiling soundproofing foam on fire. It was not an approved or fireproof grade.

Ty Longly, one of GW's guitarists was on stage RIGHT NEXT TO the side exit and still perished.

The West Warwick Fire Marshall was quoted as saying that if you were not out of the building in 60 seconds, you were dead. Getting 200 plus people out in 60 seconds is just not possible. The first 30 seconds people were going 'Wow, cool,' or '*** is that?' By the time they realized what was happening, it was too late.

This thread has been bumped over and over. I was hoping that more of you had seen it or gotten the message. To even consider taking this risk is unfathomable. The 100th fatality to die came almost 6 months later after months of excruciating hospitalization and pain. The horror, pain and suffering this event caused here locally is probably one of these worst tragedies I have ever seen in my lifetime.

There are hundreds more victims, people who suffered burns and survived, people horribly disfigured, , people who lost their mothers or fathers, sisters and brothers, sons and daughters. Almost everyone in RI, Eastern CT and Southern Mass knew someone affected. All this because Jack Russell need to have a splashy show.

Jack Russell promised to help the families, he never has. There have been two nice benefits, the one Mark Farner helped with (big Kudos Mark!) mentioned above and the one Dee Snider put together. Big Kudos to Dee as well, a caring musician and a fine human being.

Fire on stage? :rollno: :mad:
 
#71
Fassa Albrecht said:
Thing is that you're never going to completely eliminate the risk any sort of stunt will pose, and NOT doing something because there's a risk (of any size) of something happening will write off pretty much anything remotely interesting on stage.





Fact is that there's been thousands of gigs with pyrotechnics which haven't burnt the place down. And yes, usually when something goes wrong, someone is to blame.
Click to expand...


I'll skip the 'remotely interesting' as well as burning 100 people to death.
 
#73
Fassa Albrecht said:
Thing is that you're never going to completely eliminate the risk any sort of stunt will pose, and NOT doing something because there's a risk (of any size) of something happening will write off pretty much anything remotely interesting on stage.
Click to expand...

I agree, but in the case of fire, the potential risk is huge and far too great to be worth any possible benefit. Especially since, in the case of fire, the risk is venue damage and possibly death if things get out of hand. Im all for taking risks, Im a huge risk taker, but I couldnt live with myself having even one persons death on my hand.

Mark Kendall, the guitarist for Great White, is my ex-wifes brother. The memory of the Station Fire still haunts him (when last I spoke to him in 2007).
 
#74
mottshoople said:
Although I'm very familiar with the incident, I've never read this before. A very tragic read. The thing I find most interesting is that the tour manager, Daniel Biechele, immediately owned up. He didn't try to hide his involvement, or shift blame. He took full responsibility. Meanwhile, the owners of the club, who appear to have broken many laws and violated many codes, didn't. They were just as guilty, if not more so and yet they plead No Contest and got lighter sentences than Biechele. At least a lot of the families of those lost recognized that Biechele took his responsibility seriously, and wrote letters on his behalf. Very tragic and sad.
Click to expand...

Seems like sprinkler system would be required on public buildings, and would have saved lives in this case.. May not put the fire out, but at least slow the spread enough for more people to be able to evacuate.

Randy
 
#75
Buildings under a certain capacity in RI built before 1976 were exempted from later sprinkler requirements on new construction. RI laws passed after Station Fire removed many of the grandfather clauses and basically said, 'retrofit or close'. It's not going to happen here again ever, I surely hope so.
 
#76
Again...

Best case scenario:

Your friends and fans think it's 'way cool', but the band gets booted form the club and are never allowed to play there again.
No club owner will take responsibility for letting you back in after a stunt like that, because then they could be considered liable for anything that will happen.

Worst case scenario:

People die.


Not worth it at all, and if anyone still thinks a 'splashy show' is worth someone's life, they have a serious problem and really should get some professional help (or at least a conscience).
 
#78
kcole4001 said:
Again...

Best case scenario:

Your friends and fans think it's 'way cool', but the band gets booted form the club and are never allowed to play there again.
No club owner will take responsibility for letting you back in after a stunt like that, because then they could be considered liable for anything that will happen.

Worst case scenario:

People die.


Not worth it at all, and if anyone still thinks a 'splashy show' is worth someone's life, they have a serious problem and really should get some professional help (or at least a conscience).
Click to expand...


Even with no pyro, there's still a decent risk of someone getting hurt. There's been at least two big stage collapses in the world media to my memory in the lasy year alone.
And no, I'm not saying a 'spalshy show' is worth even a single life, only that pyro stunts, along with any other stage stunt, comes with its own risk.

As someone points out, there were few or no sprinklers at The Station nightclub which likely would have saved the lives of a lot of people.

@Matticus: I can only apologize if I'm coming across as insensitive or a complete asshat. I didn't realize of your personal connections.
 

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