I agree with this. This has been my experience. I guess I can still work it while sitting.
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Double Bass Lightness of touch (DB forum thread)
- Thread starter Chris Fitzgerald
- Start date
I agree with this. This has been my experience. I guess I can still work it while sitting.
That's the position I came from. It's good, but it gave me a pain in my left side where I have an old sports injury. Straightening the bass up seems to be my best option at this point. This getting older thing is kind of a PITA, isn't it?
I guess I was lucky in retrospect. About twenty five years ago I had a bad bout of tendonitis. I went to The Clinic For Performing Artists here in Chicago. It's part of Northwestern Hospital and very famous worldwide for injuries for dancers, musicians, etc.. They had me play for them and helped me to rebuild my technique concentrating on balance and no tension. I literally practiced for two years in front of a mirror to identify any tension or imbalances, and went back monthly so they could make small corrections. The injury was the best thing that could have happened to me. I have had no problems physically playing since then. And I'm an old fart.
- Jan 25, 2006
- 1,292
- 6
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist; Arnold Schnitzer/ Wil DeSola New Standard RN DB
After scanning this thread I don't think anyone has mentioned that old, dead steels can contribute to "hamburger hands". Newer may have overtones that can be objectionable perhaps while practicing etc., but I find there is more suppleness to the feel and they are LOUDER. Speaking of intonation helping volume, newer strings intonate better as well.
While old strings may have a mellowness and warmth especially desired for younger instruments and your sound while practicing alone, I find that very old ones just reach a point where they are just more work. You may be not hearing enough acoustic volume and overtones to help you push thru the mix so unconciously the tendency may be to play too hard to compensate. As this happens the stiffness of old strings will just help grind the burger even more.
Before reading this thread I was just thinking how relaxed my hands have felt on gigs w/ my 2 month old Superflexibles broken in and peaking.
Bri
While old strings may have a mellowness and warmth especially desired for younger instruments and your sound while practicing alone, I find that very old ones just reach a point where they are just more work. You may be not hearing enough acoustic volume and overtones to help you push thru the mix so unconciously the tendency may be to play too hard to compensate. As this happens the stiffness of old strings will just help grind the burger even more.
Before reading this thread I was just thinking how relaxed my hands have felt on gigs w/ my 2 month old Superflexibles broken in and peaking.
Bri
Since my injury 3 years ago, I've been concentrating on a minimal tension technique. I agree, it's the best thing that happened to me, too. I've learned so much about my body and how to get the most out of playing with the least amount of wear. That's been paramount to my recovery. I try and impart this concept to my students, too. It pays to be efficient in our work, especially as we get older!
I think you may be right about this. But who can face buying a new set of strings every few months?
- Jan 25, 2006
- 1,292
- 6
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist; Arnold Schnitzer/ Wil DeSola New Standard RN DB
I don't mean every FEW months. I talking about stories of bass players loving their 2-3 (or much more!) yr old set of strings. To each his own. I guess that's fine if you're not playing that bass too much, but I could never understand the love of old, dead, stiff strings especially on pro players' main axes playing at hi-intensity levels. I usually put new strings on my main bass every 8-10 months. I think if I went longer than a year w/ the same set I would be in the 'chop shred zone' after some intense tempos w/ an athletic drummer etc.
..and of course I agree that staying relaxed and efficiency in your technique is essential to keeping your hands feeling good.
Another thing that comes to mind is excessive head bobbing or heavy foot tapping, any extraneous motion can add tension to the body w/o realizing it. I learned this the hard way when I was a student.
I guess I don't (or don't want to) agree. I had 10 year old Spiros on my bass before I changed them. Tried Obbligatos, Evas, Eva Weichs, and Compass 180 regulars. Went back to Spiro Mittels. Granted, 10 years is stupid long, but I LOVE old Spiros. But my bass had an eggshell thin top and was super responsive. I don't even START to like them for a year!!! It's funny I am starting to like my Spiros on my new Goila and I just realized that they've been on for a year! (maybe that's why I need so much eq!)
You know that actually individual's chemistry has an impact. A friend of mine changes every 6 months but I swear he has sulphiric acid in his sweat!. My hands don't sweat at all and my strings seem to last forever and I play all the time.
So I just finished a marathon-ish gig about a couple hours ago. Thanks to this thread my hands are still functional. 
Seriously though, I played relaxed even when the volume went up and it makes such a difference. The guts on top also saved my fingers from pain. Spiro Solo D and G are going on in the next few days though...
Seriously though, I played relaxed even when the volume went up and it makes such a difference. The guts on top also saved my fingers from pain. Spiro Solo D and G are going on in the next few days though...
I agree with most of the sage advice that has been advanced on this subject, particularly regarding the importance of physical technique in achieving a good loud tone without overplaying.
What tends to trip me up is giving in to the temptation to play louder. Whether it's getting caught up in the energy of a good session or trying to compete with louder players on the bandstand, I can almost always look back at the end of a night where I've overplayed and trashed my hands and identify the point at which I started trying to play louder. Attempting to play louder always means (for me) playing harder and ending up in the situation that has been described - harder playing equals loss of tone and volume, equals keep trying to play even louder to get more volume.
I find it more difficult to stay cool when the energy is really happening, since there is such a tendency to get caught up in the excitement and overplay unconsciously. I have been a little more successful keeping my playing controlled when it is a battle between loud players. This seems different to me - more of a potential ego trap, meaning my ego thinks I play as good or better than the drummer, horn players, etc, and I have just as much need to be heard as those guys, so I need to play louder to be heard. If I can recognize that for what it is and consciously keep my playing in control, then I avoid the whole spiral into frustration. This means making a decision that its ok if the bass gets lost in the mix, and maybe the crowd ends up not hearing the bass well. IME though, the number of times that I think the bass can't be heard well are far fewer than the times my friends in the crowd tell me they couldn't hear me.
What tends to trip me up is giving in to the temptation to play louder. Whether it's getting caught up in the energy of a good session or trying to compete with louder players on the bandstand, I can almost always look back at the end of a night where I've overplayed and trashed my hands and identify the point at which I started trying to play louder. Attempting to play louder always means (for me) playing harder and ending up in the situation that has been described - harder playing equals loss of tone and volume, equals keep trying to play even louder to get more volume.
I find it more difficult to stay cool when the energy is really happening, since there is such a tendency to get caught up in the excitement and overplay unconsciously. I have been a little more successful keeping my playing controlled when it is a battle between loud players. This seems different to me - more of a potential ego trap, meaning my ego thinks I play as good or better than the drummer, horn players, etc, and I have just as much need to be heard as those guys, so I need to play louder to be heard. If I can recognize that for what it is and consciously keep my playing in control, then I avoid the whole spiral into frustration. This means making a decision that its ok if the bass gets lost in the mix, and maybe the crowd ends up not hearing the bass well. IME though, the number of times that I think the bass can't be heard well are far fewer than the times my friends in the crowd tell me they couldn't hear me.
Like Ed, I switched to the Velvet Animas and feel they are much less hard on your hands than steel strings - especially as has been mentioned if they are old and dead!
I wouldn't use anything but Velvets now and maybe something like the Garbos, might be the answer for those who want volume without so much of the pain...?
I took some the advice in this thread to practice on sunday.
Turned my amp just a notch, and concentrated on playing soft and relaxed - left and right hand. Much better tone, and timing.
In fact it was probably the best band practice I've had playing this instrument.
Turned my amp just a notch, and concentrated on playing soft and relaxed - left and right hand. Much better tone, and timing.
In fact it was probably the best band practice I've had playing this instrument.
This is why I like to participate here. Sometimes you feel like you're typing into the wind, so It's good to hear that you got some actual help.
I think I deal with the same problem you are having. My solution was to lay off the caffeine before, and the booze during a gig.
From a relative newcomers perspective, I found that while digging in may give you more volume - it's not always useable volume 'cause at a certain point it sounds like garbage. I'm starting to feel the balance between doing the work, and letting the bass do the work. Another one of those big differences between playing BG and UB with regards to technique and how a fully acoustic instrument behaves when pushed to hard.
A light touch and digging in are not mutually exclusive. One thing that is very nice in music is dynamics!
Also: in order to project a light touch, the left hand should hold the string down as if you were digging in.
Much like the old saying that shifts should always be quick no matter how slow you are playing!
Also: in order to project a light touch, the left hand should hold the string down as if you were digging in.
Much like the old saying that shifts should always be quick no matter how slow you are playing!
This has been EXACTLY my experience. Once I cooled off a little bit, my sound just opened up whereas it had previously been choked sounding.
I still find myself diggin in a little too hard when the band gets going, but I'm aware of it now and so I try to use it use in the most musical way possible.
+1
And something else to add...volume is not the goal, music is the goal.
Volume and dynamics are not just the "job" of the rhythm section they are the pulse and breath of the music. Everyone on the bandstand needs to be in the moment. Sometimes that comes at the expense of individuals being "equal in the mix" I think sometimes we as bass players get caught up in the volume arms race and then everyone suffers, most especially the song.
BTW- this is a great discussion!
-J
