Live sound solution for excessive bass stage volume?

[el murdoque]

What is the scenario we're talking about here? What are the other musicians playing and how loud? How big are the places you play?

The Rumble 100 is insanely loud for its size, but it is still a very small amp.
Maybe upgrading to a rig that will carry the volume without breaking a sweat could help.

 

[dbase]

The way I look at it... don't worry about everybody else's volume... You've invested some bucks on bass amplification and you want to take advantage of it. Where else but on a live stage. Adjust your volume so your comfortable with the tone and enjoy yourself.. Just another tip from your old uncle Dbase

 

[dbase]

View attachment 3729231



Problem solved!

Now thats what I'm talkin about

 

[10cc]

Initially flat. I turned the bass down, but was still boomy. I hope the HPF will help.

It should.

 

[MTN.bass72]

I’m currently playing a P Bass through a Rumble 100. There is plenty of volume for the gigs we’re doing, although I’m not a fan of the tone, which I describe as “cardboard”. I realize I need an amp/cab or combo upgrade. Or do I?

Only the vocals are going through the PA, and everyone uses floor wedges, which are also vocals only. The problem is when I crank the Rumble to a decent volume, the bass swamps the stage, goes all boomy, and nobody can hear the monitors clearly. My only solution at the last gig was to turn the bass down, which meant very little bass was getting out to FOH. I just ordered a Broughton HPF to help, but I don’t think that’s the only solution.

So I’m thinking that the bass has to get off the stage. The current PA isn’t beefy enough to DI the bass straight from a preamp or model to the mixer.

So how can I clean up the stage volume without putting the bass through the PA? I like the idea of running a modeling preamp like the new POD Go straight to the PA. So rather than buying a better bass amp/cab or combo, I could spend the cash on adding a powered sub to the PA. The mixer only has a single aux send, so everyone has to listen to the same vocals. I can’t put the bass through the monitors.

Any solutions appreciated!

Seems to me that you've answered your questions...
I was going to suggest an hpf, and raising your cab off the stage... which in turn would allow you to clean up your signal and also turn down because the can is closer to your ears...
If you're like me, I like having a cab behind me... since you're not able to effectively run DI... I'm guessing you also need your cab... keep it simple... utilize your hpf, get something to sit your cab on... milk crates work great, not pretty, but work... or, Walmart has inexpensive folding step stools that work well

 

[MYLOWFREQ]

Turn your amp down, send some of your signal to the pa through a DI. If you don't like clean, try sg w/ some color like the sansamp, etc.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Gramma pad, great solution, FOH will love you for it.
Isolating the low end from the room will certainly help.
Dirk

 

[selowitch]

Why do you think you can't DI your bass into the PA and monitors? There hasn't been a PA made in the last 40 years that would be damaged by that if they're run by a competent sound person.

1. A lot of sound men/sound women and those who play them on TV believe that running a bass guitar through the PA will “destroy” the PA;
2. There are too many incompetent sound men/sound women.

As others have already stated, a high-pass filter (HPF) may be a good idea.

 

[bfields]

The mixer only has a single aux send

As long as you're in the mood to spend money, a small digital mixer isn't that expensive and would solve this particular problem.

 

[sawzalot]

This isn’t just a bass issue. You’re getting into the area where you need to start looking at a slightly more advanced PA setup in general:

—you need to be able to apply eq to your monitors so they cut through better for the vocalists.
—you need to be able to apply a high pass filter and a gate to your mics. I high pass all vocal mics around 100-120 hz to keep the bass out of them. Your bass is probably bleeding into the mics which is contributing to the muddy/cardboard sound as it comes out the wedge.
—if you want a powered sub, you’ll need some way of sending lows to the subs and everything else to the tops. Many subs have built in crossovers for this but you need to look for that feature.
—even with a sub you’ll still need the first two items above because then it will be the sub causing issues instead of your amp.

There are lots of good digital mixers that have the tools to fix many/all of these issues. The Behringer XR18 is at a nice price point, and there are many others from QSC, Yamaha, Presonus, etc.

My best solution would be to move to IEMs but you might not be there yet. This isn’t your fault, it’s just the nature of getting better at what you do. Controlling low end wash onstage is always a goal/issue in any PA of any size and it becomes more complex and difficult as the system gets bigger and louder.

 

[TeamScorpioRI]

Sounds like the band needs a new PA. Take some of the money from shows and invest in a solid PA rig that will support your needs.

 

[Eminor3rd]

I’m currently playing a P Bass through a Rumble 100. There is plenty of volume for the gigs we’re doing, although I’m not a fan of the tone, which I describe as “cardboard”. I realize I need an amp/cab or combo upgrade. Or do I?

Only the vocals are going through the PA, and everyone uses floor wedges, which are also vocals only. The problem is when I crank the Rumble to a decent volume, the bass swamps the stage, goes all boomy, and nobody can hear the monitors clearly. My only solution at the last gig was to turn the bass down, which meant very little bass was getting out to FOH. I just ordered a Broughton HPF to help, but I don’t think that’s the only solution.

So I’m thinking that the bass has to get off the stage. The current PA isn’t beefy enough to DI the bass straight from a preamp or model to the mixer.

So how can I clean up the stage volume without putting the bass through the PA? I like the idea of running a modeling preamp like the new POD Go straight to the PA. So rather than buying a better bass amp/cab or combo, I could spend the cash on adding a powered sub to the PA. The mixer only has a single aux send, so everyone has to listen to the same vocals. I can’t put the bass through the monitors.

Any solutions appreciated!

I don't think you KNOW that "not enough bass was getting to the FOH" at this point. Generally speaking, you'd surprised at how much the bass projects to the back of the room compared to what you can hear standing next to your amp.

 

[Dbassmon]

Using any bass amp to fill a venue alone is problematic. Those that suggest a better PA are correct. Use your bass amp to get a good balance with your drummer. Maybe raise the amp more to ear level or tilt it up. Let the PA do the heavy lifting. Turning down is always a great place to start if you can get everyone on board, but not always easy to do. Having all instruments in the PA allows complete control of the FOH mix without straining your amps and killing your hearing. If you have no plans to get a better PA, or FOH mixer, everyone turning down is your best bet.

 

[Fishheadjoe]

IMHO, you have graduated to the point that the entry level Rumble is not cutting it... not surprising as it's only doing what it is supposed to do.
If you are gigging regularly, you should probably consider upgrading to a more "professional" rig.
100watts in my experience is not enough juice for a band that does not have full p/a support, ie vox on sticks. You need enough power/drivers to carry the room, without the amp hitting is output threshold.
I'd look to sell the Rumble and pick up an amp with a min of 500watts for class D and 200 watts for tube. Minimum of a 2x12 cab that can handle the power of the amp.
You have brought a spork to a knife fight!
Fishheadjoe

 

[BassHappy]

Very simple solution:

Other brands make similar, cheaper versions.

 

[Wesley R]

Try elevating the Rumble with an amp stand or milk crate. Does that help reduce the boomy stage sound?

Correct, cost like $30 I'm guessing, my wife bought it for me, tilt back a little, works well with my Rumble 100

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

That’s what I did at the last gig. But I don’t think much low end was getting out to the crowd. I could just barely hear enough of me, and it was actually nice to hear the monitors clearly. I think the rest of the band appreciated that, too.

What you hear on stage is not what is heard in the audience. Low frequency sound waves are much longer than higher frequencies and take longer to develop. It may be just fine in the audience.
First time (1972 +/-) I ran an SVT with the two 8x10 cabs it came with I thought I had a decent volume dialed in. The manager asked me to please turn down. I said it sounds fine to me. He said you're knocking plaques off the wall in the banquet room on the other side of the kitchen.
You need to get someone knowledgeable to listen out front to see what you really sound like. It isn't your Rumble 100. I do about half my gigs with one. It is a great amp with the tone I like.

 

[Kipp Harrington]

I’m currently playing a P Bass through a Rumble 100. There is plenty of volume for the gigs we’re doing, although I’m not a fan of the tone, which I describe as “cardboard”. I realize I need an amp/cab or combo upgrade. Or do I?

Only the vocals are going through the PA, and everyone uses floor wedges, which are also vocals only. The problem is when I crank the Rumble to a decent volume, the bass swamps the stage, goes all boomy, and nobody can hear the monitors clearly. My only solution at the last gig was to turn the bass down, which meant very little bass was getting out to FOH. I just ordered a Broughton HPF to help, but I don’t think that’s the only solution.

So I’m thinking that the bass has to get off the stage. The current PA isn’t beefy enough to DI the bass straight from a preamp or model to the mixer.

So how can I clean up the stage volume without putting the bass through the PA? I like the idea of running a modeling preamp like the new POD Go straight to the PA. So rather than buying a better bass amp/cab or combo, I could spend the cash on adding a powered sub to the PA. The mixer only has a single aux send, so everyone has to listen to the same vocals. I can’t put the bass through the monitors.

Any solutions appreciated!

 

[micguy]

So how can I clean up the stage volume without putting the bass through the PA? I can’t put the bass through the monitors.

Any solutions appreciated!

You have talked yourself out of lots of logical ways to fix your problem. If you want progress, you have to take down your mental roadblocks. If you're not willing to do that, just skip the rest of my post.

Your problem is you have too much low end rolling around on stage. Taking the bass amp off the stage is the first step towards a better environment for you (the band) and the audience.

The best solution, in terms of getting the audience a better sound, is in ears and a good PA that will handle the bass frequencies and levels that you need, trusting the FOH person to get you in the mix with the right level and EQ. If you don't want the in ears part, then putting yourself through the PA, and monitoring on a wedge (with the low end that's fed to that wedge cut a lot) is a way that can work, though it's not as ideal as in ears. A monitor (in ears or wedge) is a tool that helps you do your job well. The wedge doesn't need to have low end in it, because you'll hear and feel that from the PA. You need mids and highs to get pitch cues (making sure you're playing the right notes) and timing (keeping the groove solid).

 

[Hambone70]

Thanks to everyone for the assistance! I’ll try a multi-pronged approach. HPF, elevate and tilt the cab, send a pre-EQ DI feed to the PA, cut the bass and volume from the cab, and get out into the room to get a feel for the bass volume.