Live sound solution for excessive bass stage volume?

[ColonelZulu]

ART MyMONITORII Personal... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N5TALWO?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

 

[Ellery]

I’m currently playing a P Bass through a Rumble 100. There is plenty of volume for the gigs we’re doing, although I’m not a fan of the tone, which I describe as “cardboard”. I realize I need an amp/cab or combo upgrade. Or do I?

Only the vocals are going through the PA, and everyone uses floor wedges, which are also vocals only. The problem is when I crank the Rumble to a decent volume, the bass swamps the stage, goes all boomy, and nobody can hear the monitors clearly. My only solution at the last gig was to turn the bass down, which meant very little bass was getting out to FOH. I just ordered a Broughton HPF to help, but I don’t think that’s the only solution.

So I’m thinking that the bass has to get off the stage. The current PA isn’t beefy enough to DI the bass straight from a preamp or model to the mixer.

So how can I clean up the stage volume without putting the bass through the PA? I like the idea of running a modeling preamp like the new POD Go straight to the PA. So rather than buying a better bass amp/cab or combo, I could spend the cash on adding a powered sub to the PA. The mixer only has a single aux send, so everyone has to listen to the same vocals. I can’t put the bass through the monitors.

Any solutions appreciated!

FWIW, I use an always-on Broughton HPF. Once I payed a venue that was long and narrow creating excessive boom. Sound guy kept telling me to turn my volume down. After several rounds of this I was way too low. So I cranked my HPF to a much higher frequency and turned my volume back up. Sound guy said it was perfect.

 

[azureblue]

Try elevating the Rumble with an amp stand or milk crate. Does that help reduce the boomy stage sound?

I second this. I have a tilt back amp stand that works wonders for boomy stages and rooms. And makes the amp easier to hear, too.

 

[AMJBASS]

I would also second the suggestion of turning the low mid down a bit on the amp itself. I have a Rumble 40 that I use for small gigs/jazz stuff and I find it a very low mid heavy amp. Generally I will back off the bass and low mids to around 10-11:00.

 

[4StringDave]

Get your amp up off the floor on a beer crate or something. It sounds like it's boom coming through floor coupling, especially if the stage is hollow, and the mics may be picking up the boom too.

 

[2F/2F]

Common problem with unmiked bass rigs, especially single speaker. In order to get the sound level correct out into the audience, you need to have a booming loud stage volume.

Easy fix you can do, without involving anyone else (i.e. a sound guy/gal): Elevate your amp. Most of the excessive onstage "volume" is actually vibrations shaking the stage. Get it a foot off the ground and it'll be better. Not perfect, but definitely better. This does two things: 1) reduces the floor/stage vibration, and 2) gets the amp closer to your ears, making what you are hearing closer to what the audience is hearing.

The ideal solution is that you have your amp miked or have a direct box to the PA, and use your amp as primarily a stage monitor. But real-world gigging situations are often not ideal. So just start by elevating your amp.

 

[esoxhntr]

Get your amp up off the floor on a beer crate or something. It sounds like it's boom coming through floor coupling, especially if the stage is hollow, and the mics may be picking up the boom too.

This. Solves a lot of problems, and you may like the sound of your Rumble much better when it's "rumbling" a little less. I use this...

Yorkville Sound - Amp Stand - Fixed Angle

... and it works perfectly. You might also want to consider an EQ or preamp pedal with a minimum of 4 bands of EQ. There are tons to choose from. The Broughton HPF/LPF is a great pedal, but in this case it's not the solution that you are looking for. You are looking to minimize a single frequency range to stop the "boom".

 

[Eddie LeBlanc]

Better Amp.... if you have tried all the tone and towel or stand options.
View attachment 3729749

BTW I use an isolation board.
View attachment 3729752

Also the Bergantino B|Amp has a variable HPF and a variable LPF built in. Along with a lot more.

 

[jthisdell]

I had a Rumble 100 for a week, did one gig, could not get any low end thump out of it, sent it back. Maybe your 100 had all the volume in it that mine was missing?

Now mind you, we are not a loud band and I have done many gigs with my older Rumble 150 head and an inexpensive 15"cab.

I do think the 100 already has a pretty aggressive HPF built into it, that is how it can get pretty loud without blowing up.

 

[joeypee]

Turn the "bass" knob down..........there ya go.....that should do it

 

[Skillet]

Here's 500 watts for 250 bucks.

 

[MobileHolmes]

Generally, you need to EQ and set volume for the room, not what's right in front of you. Bass sound waves take a long distance to get their mojo working (official physics term) so what you hear right in front of the amp isn't what the audience hears. My amp sounds pretty thin standing right next to it, but good in the room. I wouldn't even worry about an HPF. You've got an EQ. Use that.

 

[Hambone70]

On-Stage - RS7000 - On-Stage Stands Hopefully this will do the trick!

I'm also interested in trying out a better small combo or amp/cab, perhaps an Elf, or a Barefaced Super Midget with a small Class D amp, or one of the smaller GK combos.

 

[Mugre]

What you hear on stage is not what is heard in the audience. Low frequency sound waves are much longer than higher frequencies and take longer to develop.

First sentence is correct. Second sentence about why is mostly wrong. Our ears don't hear wavelengths, they hear frequency, the changes in air pressure that move in waves PAST our ears. We perceive the change no matter where we are along the wave path. If our ears needed distance for the wave to develop, no headphone would work below about 600hz (a wavelength of something like 2 inches).

Why does it sound different in the room vs. 3 feet from the amp? The ratio of direct sound vs room sound. The room affects the sound through modes (where wavelength does matter) and through the acoustic effects of its size, shape and reflectivity. Air and crowd absorption also play into it. The further out into the room, the more room and less direct sound and obviously vice versa.

Agree that decoupling from the floor and a tunable HPF are good first steps along with an understanding that what's good on stage may not be good in the audience and vice versa.

Mugre

 

[Domespeed]

I am sure a good EQ will help a lot.
Most of the time, one ore two frequencies that resonate in the room (or the stage floor) ruin the whole bass sound.

 

[dkelley]

I would LOVE to get the same headphone tone that I get plugging my P Bass straight into my PreSonus Audiobox USB! That's just straight into the instrument input on the front, and straight out the phones socket in the back.

Come to think of it, is there any reason that I can't use an audio interface as a preamp, as long as I can get USB power into the back?

Well, that's basically a neutral instrument DI (not a bass DI), and the only EQ is whatever your headphones do to the mix (who knows).

But sounds like you want a more neutral EQ path, and the rumble 100 is, if I recall, not particularly neutral when it's set flat. I have no idea if you can make it flat by doing things like they do on certain guitar amps, like crank mids and treble and put bass at 35% or something (I just invented that, not real numbers, just an example of some of the crazy settings on amp tone stacks that you might need to get a truly neutral tone out of it, if you even can).

 

[Mantis Tobaggan]

Turn up your bass and then turn up all the other things.

 

[dkelley]

That's a myth. If it was true you wouldn't be able to hear low frequencies through headphones.

yea, but it does "SEEM" like they take longer to develop, to the novice. It's not a bad way to think about things, if you really don't understand how it works... because the end result is that yes, you can have WAY more bass in the room, and way more boomy sound, than you do on stage.

So as a bassist, inaccurate though his statement is, it's not a bad way to remember that the bass in the crowd can seem to have "blossomed" dramatically from your amp's sound.

 

[Chickenwheels]

OK, let's back up. Everybody take a breath. There's something missing here.

If he has to turn the bass down on a relatively small combo to keep from drowning the stage in bass, I'm going to need clarification on a couple of things.

1) Based on context, I'm guessing you guys are a kind of quiet band?

2) Wjat is the construction of the stage? It seems to me your rig has "coupled" to the stage. And the stage itself is becoming a big, booming sub. If that's the case, you need to isolate it from the stage. There are special pads that do this. Before spending the money on that, I would try a gig with a couple of folded towels under your rig. That will help some.

If that's not it, there's another acoustic issue going on. It could just be a boomy room. As such, you're on the right track with the HPF.

3) What kind of PA do you have? What kind of mains speakers? If they can handle some bass (and the vast majority of modern speakers can), you can still take your rig and simply line out of it to the PA. Then you can turn down the rig on stage and all three (stage rig and two mains) will divide the job of filling the room with bass.

Yep. But it’s still a good idea to start with some quality backline kit. “Some” amps are great until you start gigging. You can keep fiddling about trying to “fix” things or just start with something better. An accessible 100 watt combo just says “boomy low mids when loud” to me, pretty much what the OP’s problem sounds like. The PA system is basic. The gigs aren’t crazy loud by the sound of it. Why not get an amp that’ll give you clarity and presence without relying on the PA and a stack of accessories?

 

[lz4005]

yea, but it does "SEEM" like they take longer to develop, to the novice. It's not a bad way to think about things, if you really don't understand how it works... because the end result is that yes, you can have WAY more bass in the room, and way more boomy sound, than you do on stage.

So as a bassist, inaccurate though his statement is, it's not a bad way to remember that the bass in the crowd can seem to have "blossomed" dramatically from your amp's sound.

It is a bad way to think about it because it prevents you from understanding how it works and how to fix problems when they occur.

Speaker directionality is a real thing, as are room effects, reflections, standing waves, bass traps, etc.