Live sound sounding muddy!

[MattyH]

Judging by what the OP has writen so far I would dismiss hearing loss and attibute it to tone settings. I had an LH500 and it was not muddy at all. I was at the time using a passive Jazz bass and it was clear as can be. I always had the bass at 0, mids full, treble at 2(close to flat for a Fender tone stack). The sansamp is going to seriously affect your sound as well. You need to cut with that preamp rather than boost to get it sounding clear.

Gotcha. I need the BDDI more for a volume boost. The 62 Jazz is too quiet. If I put it straight into the head, I have to pump the volume. I'd rather not do that. I'll set the knobs where I've been instructed, then add in the BDDI. But instead of relying on it I'll try to cut it as much as possible. It'll be a fun day of level adjusting

 

[MattyH]

I think in this case, it's probably not hearing, but it is always a good idea to be aware of high volume levels. Anyway, now it sounds like you're on the right track with the LH head. I'm an Ampeg guy but Larry makes really nice stuff...just have to massage the tone controls.

I'm an Ampeg man as well. The LH1000 was just a deal I felt I couldn't pass up. But Larry is a King and a Legend. As are you, JimmyM...

 

[will33]

Actually it's not crazy! It's a very good point everyone needs to be aware of. I use ear buds for the most part, but I was recently fitted for custom noise filtering plugs, and that came with a hearing test. My hearing is fine so I think it's just my settings. But we're all very aware of that. Not something to be taken lightly! My drummer just recently took the plunge on the in ear monitors. We wanna be doing this for a while, so hearing loss is not an option! But again, good point.

Good advice.

When things start sounding different after being exposed to volume for a while, one of the things that's happening is our ears trying to protect themselves by constricting. Keep blasting away anyway and you will damage them. Notice how things sound different after a set break even though you haven't changed any settings? The voice coils and our ears both got a break and began the process of returning to normal.

 

[aaronhutson]

I didnt read evry single post, so sorry if its been said. But it seems to be a good rig, but like mentioned above, its got some deep color to it.

It may be that you just need to pull out some lows from the sansamp. Mine tends to add alot of lows. And i have noticed that the higher the volume im at, the more lows i pull out to keep it from being too muddy.

 

[MattyH]

I didnt read evry single post, so sorry if its been said. But it seems to be a good rig, but like mentioned above, its got some deep color to it.

It may be that you just need to pull out some lows from the sansamp. Mine tends to add alot of lows. And i have noticed that the higher the volume im at, the more lows i pull out to keep it from being too muddy.

100% correct. The low knob on the Sansamp is DELICATE! One look at it and you're too boomy, so I don't crank that guy too much! Even though, the Low on the Sansamp is a very nice low in my opinion. Real sexy if it's used right (AKA when it's not adding mud).

 

[georgestrings]

Hey guys. Basically my problem is I cant get a crisp tone out of my rig. I love punch, I love crispness, I love it round, and I love it thumpin. Too bad none of this is being achieved!

I'm running an Ampeg 410 HLF cab, a Hartke LH1000 head, and a Sansamp Bass Driver. I usually play a Fender 62 Jazz Bass. All I get is mud. Not a blown sound, just no clarity. Sloppy. Crappy. Driven, but mucky. Sometimes it'll start out half way decent, but by the middle of every single gig (every weekend), I'm driving myself crazy trying to adjust and play. It's getting frustrating. I really don't like the Hartke LH1000, and I want to eventually replace it with a GK 700RB, or maybe down the line, an SVT 4-Pro. But as of now, I'm stuck with it, and I need some advice! I don't have my gear in front of me, so if anyone has any settings to suggest to try out, that would be fantastic!

-Matt

IME, the 700rb-II works really, really well with the SVT-410HLF... I've owned 2 of each, and still have one of the 700rb-IIs - I'll be getting another SVT-410HLF eventually...


- georgestrings

 

[Gearhead17]

Gotcha. I need the BDDI more for a volume boost. The 62 Jazz is too quiet. If I put it straight into the head, I have to pump the volume. I'd rather not do that. I'll set the knobs where I've been instructed, then add in the BDDI. But instead of relying on it I'll try to cut it as much as possible. It'll be a fun day of level adjusting

What's wrong with pumping the volume on the Hartke head? The 62 Jazz, what are the pickup volume knobs set to?

Lots of great advice so far.

 

[nashvillebill]

What's wrong with pumping the volume on the Hartke head? The 62 Jazz, what are the pickup volume knobs set to?

Lots of great advice so far.

I'm wondering the same thing, why is it necessary to run another gain stage? Should be plenty of gain available from the Passive input.

 

[MattyH]

I'm wondering the same thing, why is it necessary to run another gain stage? Should be plenty of gain available from the Passive input.

iiiiiiii don't know it's always been a thing with me. I never liked having to pump the volume on any head. A nervous habit I suppose!

 

[Gearhead17]

iiiiiiii don't know it's always been a thing with me. I never liked having to pump the volume on any head. A nervous habit I suppose!

Pump it up dude! It's ok! Just listen to the speaker for signs of distress - farting, speakers flapping, distorted tones with no distortion pedal. If you were using the BDDI for a boost only, take it completely out of the signal chain, and use the bass and head. Your tone will improve dramatically. That pedal is the biggest mud factor here.

Do you have the volume knobs on the bass all the way up? If you want more definition, dial back the neck pickup a little bit and turn the bridge pickup all the way up. More string noise, more midrange and the low end will be kept in check, but still present.

 

[MattyH]

Well, I went to my practice room and literally set everything to where it was suggested. 2-10-2. And it literally sounds....AMAZING. Thanks guys. It's funny, I know how to play, I know how to write, I can tell you the ins and outs of a wedding band, Ceremony to Reception without missing a beat. But sometimes when it comes to gear I get stumped. Heres what I did.

I am now sans Sansamp. (Get it?)
Since my Jazz bass is naturally a quiet bass, I set my head volume to about 5.5 - 6. This is the perfect volume for me, and I wouldn't need more. But the cab wasn't stressed at higher volumes than this either! So I could go louder...
Low - 2
Mid - 10
High - 2.5
Bright switch OFF
Limiter switch OFF
Tweeter on cab - OFF (Too hissy)
Neck / Bridge pups - 100%
Neck Tone - 40%
Bridge Tone - 45%

It is so crystal clear now! I couldn't stop jamming. I can push the volume past noon and the clarity is still there, and it doesn't stress the cab in the slightest. It's got the Flea growl, but not too clanky. It has Motown underlining warmth, but also a dab of punch. I tell ya, I'm in tone heaven. I was ready to throw the LH1000 out my window. I was mad because Larry makes some serious sh!t, and I thought the head really wasn't a good match. But boy oh boy am I happy now! Thanks again guys. My TB brothers pull through once again.

 

[MK1]

I love seeing these kind of threads. Someone asked for help, they put their ego aside and they got a pleasing result. If only more threads could end up like this.

I'm glad you're digging your rig now, it's fun to dream about new gear, but I think it's even more satisfying when you are able to make the gear you already have, work for you in a way it never as before. It's almost like getting a whole new rig.

 

[Gearhead17]

I love seeing these kind of threads. Someone asked for help, they put their ego aside and they got a pleasing result. If only more threads could end up like this.

+10

 

[rockstarbassist]

Glad you got it sorted out! A good rule of thumb whenever you're having issues with your tone or sound is just to strip away all the nonsense and plug straight in. I've never had an issue be the amp; always batteries, cables, pedals, etc. that have gotten in the way that I addressed and added them back in later.

I didn't know Hartke used the Fender tonestack so if I ever have to backline one or use one in a pinch, now I know.

 

[NWB]

That head has a completely different "flat" setting than his other heads, correct? Basically diming the mids is mids set to flat. The bass control set to 2.5 is also flat, way less than most heads. Try BASS on 2.5, MID on 9, and TREBLE on 2.5.

Plus that cab is deep and warm to begin with.

Awesome.

That's what I was trying to get at, but missed the mark.

 

[MattyH]

I love seeing these kind of threads. Someone asked for help, they put their ego aside and they got a pleasing result. If only more threads could end up like this.

I'm glad you're digging your rig now, it's fun to dream about new gear, but I think it's even more satisfying when you are able to make the gear you already have, work for you in a way it never as before. It's almost like getting a whole new rig.

Totally agree. No ego here. I'll be the first to admit when I need help, and that when I got into this I kind of neglected to learn about how to make gear work properly. I know what makes gear sound well, what makes gear expensive and inexpensive, I can pick out brands by the tone and I know a alot about the gear available today, yadda yadda. But when it comes to problems like this I need a good slap in the face with information. I knew the LH1000 was a good deal, but my problem was HOW DOES IT WORK WELL?! WHAT AM I DOING WRONG?! Haha. Everyone on this thread was great and I appreciate all of you! I literally cannot wait to play my double gig tomorrow

 

[MattyH]

Glad you got it sorted out! A good rule of thumb whenever you're having issues with your tone or sound is just to strip away all the nonsense and plug straight in. I've never had an issue be the amp; always batteries, cables, pedals, etc. that have gotten in the way that I addressed and added them back in later.

I didn't know Hartke used the Fender tonestack so if I ever have to backline one or use one in a pinch, now I know.

Exactly. If need be, I'll introduce the Sansamp back into the mix gradually, and really tweak it. By tweak I mean not rely on it so much. As of now I can't see myself needing it soon. Maybe for recording or tiny cocktail hour gigs where I'll go direct with no cab at all, but we'll see.

 

[jjk2007]

Try pushing the volume knob to about 6-6.5 sometime if you want to really start having some fun. I don't know why they do it, but the LH heads seem to go to the "next level" when you get in that range! I run my LH1000 "flat" through one of the Hydrive 410's and while I usually don't have to go past 5 volume wise, it's nice to know there's still plenty of gas in the tank if I need it.

 

[rockstarbassist]

Try pushing the volume knob to about 6-6.5 sometime if you want to really start having some fun. I don't know why they do it, but the LH heads seem to go to the "next level" when you get in that range! I run my LH1000 "flat" through one of the Hydrive 410's and while I usually don't have to go past 5 volume wise, it's nice to know there's still plenty of gas in the tank if I need it.

This too! Don't be afraid to turn up, either! I can't put my M9 past 10:00 with my cab setup, even at large venues. Sucks.

 

[MattyH]

Try pushing the volume knob to about 6-6.5 sometime if you want to really start having some fun. I don't know why they do it, but the LH heads seem to go to the "next level" when you get in that range! I run my LH1000 "flat" through one of the Hydrive 410's and while I usually don't have to go past 5 volume wise, it's nice to know there's still plenty of gas in the tank if I need it.

PLENTY of gas!