Local Live Music Is Dead

[jeff5311]

The band, as a concept, is dying (or dead). So is bass and almost every non-electronic instrument.

There will be outlets for live music, but these will continue to dwindle.

Guys, if u want to make the best of playing live, and u r in a cover band, learn the songs a DJ would play. That's the only way u can compete. Boys will always go where the drunk dancing partying girls are. Attract girls, keep them happy and you'll be on ur way to making the best of a dying art.

 

[HolmeBass]

I agree with the OP, and I live in a college town. The fact is the struggling music scene here almost never draws in college students, but far moreso relies on the working people of that same age demographic on up to about 30, when they "settle down" and stop coming out to shows. There is no way anyone could make anything close to a decent living playing live music in my home town, and everyone here knows you have to travel to play shows where you won't be taken for granted. Younger people I work with have told me flat out they have no interest in going to see a live band because they'd rather just surf the internet for "good" music. The fact is that if you're familiar, you can't be that good in most people's minds. The good stuff is what they read about on the internet.

 

[Altitude]

I've been thinking of this thread for a while, and I really feel like a lot of you older guys are just out of touch with how things are done these days. Bands don't typically get big by constantly playing out anymore. They get big by creating a strong internet presence. A funny or unique music video or creative song uploaded to YouTube will do SOOOOO much more than playing tons of local dives. You need to become someone online, and by doing so you can create a fan base that stretches across the US, and even the world. Now that's not to say you can make it without ever playing out or without having a killer live show, but the initial emphasis on playing out isn't nearly as big as it once was. You have to first create a product, build an image that supports that product, and then market the hell out of it via blogs, YouTube, Facebook, ReverbNation, etc... and then you take it out and play real shows that reinforces the culture you've created.

I don't think I disagree with anything you've said here - and it supports my thesis, no?

Too bad, though. I remember going to see a few really great bands when I was a kid in Austin, in the 80s. Some of what I saw was truly life changing, and it's sad to me that young people aren't able to enjoy it like I did.

 

[bucephylus]

Couple more thoughts on this one.

I think I posted previously that I came up through High School in Detroit with all the big Detroit names playing the local dances, which were once a month. Ted Nugent, Brownsville Station, Frijid Pink, Mitch Ryder, Bob Seger etc etc.; you get the idea. And, of course, they played the local club scene as well.

Well the big thing that occurred to me which seems to have changed is this: We did NOT primarily go to those events because the bands were so awesome. I know this will seem pretty bizarre to the younger cats on this board; but, we went primarily to dance. Which meant meeting and getting relatively intimate (as far as public activity goes) with members of the opposite gender. Slow dances were BIG. And a lot of this was partly due to the fact that dating was pretty heavily watched by the parents and the schools were otherwise pretty strict; and, quite honestly, privacy was somewhat hard to come by. The dances were the one opportunity we had to socialize at levels that would normally be frowned upon. And we wanted relatively loud music (more privacy) and ABSOLUTELY NO RECORD PLAYERS.

Fast forward to today; and I just really hardly see anyone dancing anymore. At any age group. I've gigged pretty regularly from the ASU clubs to the central Phoenix clubs in recent years. The High Schools no longer have dances AT ALL. I don't know if that is budgetary or what. I mean our High School Dances were maybe a bit underwritten; but, we all had to buy tickets. There are some few exceptions; but it just seems to me that men and women are not socializing the same way anymore; both as adults and as the result of social policy shifts. Dances and clubs USED TO BE relatively safe places the two genders could get a a little bit jiggy. Rock and Roll. Anyone remember what that actually means anymore??? It used to be a pretty central part of our social fabric.

And, this is the part that blows my mind about the whole thing. The music was always the vehicle, not the focal point. Kind of an excuse. So, a big part of what is going on is that the boys and girls are just not relating the same way anymore. Now, I don't know what has become the substitute; because I am now happily married for 30 years. But as a player, I can definitely tell you that what we used to do; it ain't happening anymore. That's the part that blows my mind.

Rock and Roll used to be part of the mating dance. Seems no longer the case. Maybe, it just goes along with American households falling apart. I don't know. But, I do know this stuff starts at the top and goes downhill; by which I mean that if you want the younger ones to learn the ways, you have to provide the environment to learn and that is High School Dances; which seem to have quietly gone away. That IMO is the grass roots. By the time the young folks get into college or out into society, they basically don't know what to do. I'm sure they are inventing something else, but it does not involve live music anymore. If someone wants to change this, you would have to start a movement to reinstate live music at the High School level.

There are certainly many other factors at work. But, this is one I have a hard time understanding and seems IMO to be a root cause.

 

[bucephylus]

I've been thinking of this thread for a while, and I really feel like a lot of you older guys are just out of touch with how things are done these days. Bands don't typically get big by constantly playing out anymore. They get big by creating a strong internet presence.

And not to single Matt out, because he is probably right, but as per my previous post, exactly WHAT ON EARTH does the internet have to do with getting up close and personal with the opposite gender? Facebook? Are you serious? (Again not directed at you, Matt).

 

[Clef_de_fa]

And not to single Matt out, because he is probably right, but as per my previous post, exactly WHAT ON EARTH does the internet have to do with getting up close and personal with the opposite gender? Facebook? Are you serious? (Again not directed at you, Matt).

I'm 28 and my generation and I think younger dont go to a "bar" ... it sound to much like an old place for old people drinking too much to forget their problems.

My generation prefer to go in a club dancing to Lady Gaga and other computer based music with flashy light, have a drinks ( not beer ) in their expensive dress. Or they go in a expensive resto that also play Lady Gaga and at one point in the night they make space for dancing.

But well it may be only in Quebec.

I have done some studies in music with the idea of becoming a teacher, I changed direction once I finished, I was exausted with all the practice.

Now I only play because I like it, jazz, classical, metal or prog. And I have a lot of fun recording and making video.

 

[fmoore200]

It's called a lounge in nyc. They are on every corner of the city. That's where you meet women.

Idk why they call it a lounge, though. The music is always blasting and sometimes it is hard to speak to the person right in front of you.

 

[ksandvik]

It's called a lounge in nyc. They are on every corner of the city. That's where you meet women.

Idk why they call it a lounge, though. The music is always blasting and sometimes it is hard to speak to the person right in front of you.

A band could also play loud, but it's cheaper for a bar owner to crank up an iPod to 10.

 

[ksandvik]

Actually my next prediction is that bar owners will stop even using DJs, there's one bar around there that did that with their Friday/Saturday evenings and the people visiting don't even mind. As long as it's loud.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

And not to single Matt out, because he is probably right, but as per my previous post, exactly WHAT ON EARTH does the internet have to do with getting up close and personal with the opposite gender? Facebook? Are you serious? (Again not directed at you, Matt).

No offense taken

It's a good question - albeit, it seems to be one that only older guys and gals ask because they're (respectfully) ignorant of just how powerful the internet really is and what it's fully capable of.

Take for instance this YouTube video:
'My First Hardcore Song' by 8yr old Juliet OFFICIAL - YouTube

This video was literally uploaded for the first time less than a week ago, and it has already been seen by over 15 MILLION people. This is why the internet is so important. You can reach millions, if not billions, of people without having to leave your house to perform a show even once.

If you can create something that's unique, catchy, edgy, original, etc... and have it become a viral hit you can really jump start your musical career without having to of played a ton of dives to the same 50-200 odd people (depending on the venue) who always go out to shows regardless of who's playing.

Now where do the girls come into this? Simple - create music that girls like. If you play music that girls want to dance to then they will come out to see you. If you get the girls then the guys will follow simply because they want to be with the girls. The guys will be looking to get laid so they'll be buying drinks all night. The patrons are happy, the venue is happy, and your band will be happy.

 

[bucephylus]

See, there is a serious gap here.

I am beginning to feel the same as when I was roaming around some of the Japanese towns trying to ask directions without knowing a word of Japanese.

 

[Syco_bass]

No offense taken

It's a good question - albeit, it seems to be one that only older guys and gals ask because they're (respectfully) ignorant of just how powerful the internet really is and what it's fully capable of.

Take for instance this YouTube video:
'My First Hardcore Song' by 8yr old Juliet OFFICIAL - YouTube

This video was literally uploaded for the first time less than a week ago, and it has already been seen by over 15 MILLION people. This is why the internet is so important. You can reach millions, if not billions, of people without having to leave your house to perform a show even once.

If you can create something that's unique, catchy, edgy, original, etc... and have it become a viral hit you can really jump start your musical career without having to of played a ton of dives to the same 50-200 odd people (depending on the venue) who always go out to shows regardless of who's playing.

Now where do the girls come into this? Simple - create music that girls like. If you play music that girls want to dance to then they will come out to see you. If you get the girls then the guys will follow simply because they want to be with the girls. The guys will be looking to get laid so they'll be buying drinks all night. The patrons are happy, the venue is happy, and your band will be happy.

+1 just play some music ppl will move to. Our job as a bar band is really simple. Keep the ppl entertained long enough to buy some drinks so the venue and their patrons want you back. Its not rocket surgery. ; - )

 

[jmattbassplaya]

See, there is a serious gap here.

I am beginning to feel the same as when I was roaming around some of the Japanese towns trying to ask directions without knowing a word of Japanese.

LOL!

I'd honestly love to hear more of your thoughts on this if you have any.

Also, Facebook is perhaps the BEST marketing tool out there for any band right now. Your band page will instantly collect data on all your personal friends and fans and will pile them all into one very unique database. With Facebook, you can actually see who your key demographics are (be them male or female, where they are dominantly located, their age, etc...).

Likewise, it can tell you how many people you can potentially reach with any post on your band page's wall. My band currently has the power to reach just over 43,000 with our page because of our fans, the friends of our fans, and the friends of our own band members. Now that's not to say you'll reach that many people, but it tells you your potential.

In addition, it can tell you just how many people a post of yours has actually reached. The average for us is usually only just over 450 or so, but it has jumped to over 900 a few times. Oh, which reminds me that it keeps a timeline of how many people you've reached and when you reached them. It even tells you who has mentioned/tagged your band in posts so that you can see if word is getting around about your band.

All of this is REALLY cool stuff that just goes to show you how much the music scene has changed. Bands have so much power these days to take control of their own fates in music. It's really just a matter of getting talented, like-minded, and business savvy individuals together who want to 'make it'. Now that's no guarantee that they will, but the potential seems to almost be greater than it's ever been.

And as I've said, the live music scene has definitely died down, but the consumption of music hasn't. Likewise, good bands that are 'hot' have no problem selling out venues at even the most ridiculous of ticket prices these days. There's definitely a market - it's just a different market than what it once was.

 

[bucephylus]

LOL!

I'd honestly love to hear more of your thoughts on this if you have any.

Also, Facebook is perhaps the BEST marketing tool out there for any band right now. Your band page will instantly collect data on all your personal friends and fans and will pile them all into one very unique database. With Facebook, you can actually see who your key demographics are (be them male or female, where they are dominantly located, their age, etc...).

Likewise, it can tell you how many people you can potentially reach with any post on your band page's wall. My band currently has the power to reach just over 43,000 with out page because of our fans, the friends of our fans, and the friends of our own band members. Now that's not to say you'll reach that many people, but it tells you your potential.

In addition, it can tell you just how many people a post of yours has actually reached. The average for us is usually only just over 450 or so, but it has jumped to over 900 a few times. Oh, which reminds me that it keeps a timeline of how many people you've reached and when you reached them. It even tells you who has mentioned/tagged your band in posts so that you can see if word is getting around about your band.

All of this is REALLY cool stuff that just goes to show you how much the music scene has changed. Bands have so much power these days to take control of their own fates in music. It's really just a matter of getting talented, like-minded, and business savvy individuals together who want to 'make it'. Now that's no guarantee that they will, but the potential seems to almost be greater than it's ever been.

And as I've said, the live music scene has definitely died down, but the consumption of music hasn't. Likewise, good bands that are 'hot' have no problem selling out venues at even the most ridiculous of ticket prices these days. There's definitely a market - it's just a different market than what it once was.

So, Matt, I completely get the effectiveness of the internet for disseminating information. Its just that trying to reconcile that kind of interaction with "socializing" in a dance situation 30 years ago is totally not on the same page. I perceive a fairly enormous gap between the way we used to socialize at events including music and dancing 30 years ago and the way it is done now. The role of the music has vastly changed as well. It could be a fairly interesting discussion as to which is the horse and which is the cart. In any case I observe in my gigging about an order of magnitude less physical interaction between the boys and the girls in the clubs now as compared to 30 years ago. Coincidentally, the role of the music has changed.

Before you get the idea that I have some kind of hidden voyeuristic interests (I don't), let me just say that one of the consequences is that there is far far less demand for live music as a result. That really was my point. Given the change in apparent lifestyle, I can understand the decreased demand for the music. What I don't get is the change in lifestyle; but, what the heck, I'm just the (old) dumb bass player. And, BTW, I blame MTV, because they caused people to watch instead of do (oh, that fit their business model).

 

[BluesOnBass]

Couple more thoughts on this one.

I think I posted previously that I came up through High School in Detroit with all the big Detroit names playing the local dances, which were once a month. Ted Nugent, Brownsville Station, Frijid Pink, Mitch Ryder, Bob Seger etc etc.; you get the idea. And, of course, they played the local club scene as well.

Well the big thing that occurred to me which seems to have changed is this: We did NOT primarily go to those events because the bands were so awesome. I know this will seem pretty bizarre to the younger cats on this board; but, we went primarily to dance. Which meant meeting and getting relatively intimate (as far as public activity goes) with members of the opposite gender. Slow dances were BIG. And a lot of this was partly due to the fact that dating was pretty heavily watched by the parents and the schools were otherwise pretty strict; and, quite honestly, privacy was somewhat hard to come by. The dances were the one opportunity we had to socialize at levels that would normally be frowned upon. And we wanted relatively loud music (more privacy) and ABSOLUTELY NO RECORD PLAYERS.

Fast forward to today; and I just really hardly see anyone dancing anymore. At any age group. I've gigged pretty regularly from the ASU clubs to the central Phoenix clubs in recent years. The High Schools no longer have dances AT ALL. I don't know if that is budgetary or what. I mean our High School Dances were maybe a bit underwritten; but, we all had to buy tickets. There are some few exceptions; but it just seems to me that men and women are not socializing the same way anymore; both as adults and as the result of social policy shifts. Dances and clubs USED TO BE relatively safe places the two genders could get a a little bit jiggy. Rock and Roll. Anyone remember what that actually means anymore??? It used to be a pretty central part of our social fabric.

And, this is the part that blows my mind about the whole thing. The music was always the vehicle, not the focal point. Kind of an excuse. So, a big part of what is going on is that the boys and girls are just not relating the same way anymore. Now, I don't know what has become the substitute; because I am now happily married for 30 years. But as a player, I can definitely tell you that what we used to do; it ain't happening anymore. That's the part that blows my mind.

Rock and Roll used to be part of the mating dance. Seems no longer the case. Maybe, it just goes along with American households falling apart. I don't know. But, I do know this stuff starts at the top and goes downhill; by which I mean that if you want the younger ones to learn the ways, you have to provide the environment to learn and that is High School Dances; which seem to have quietly gone away. That IMO is the grass roots. By the time the young folks get into college or out into society, they basically don't know what to do. I'm sure they are inventing something else, but it does not involve live music anymore. If someone wants to change this, you would have to start a movement to reinstate live music at the High School level.

There are certainly many other factors at work. But, this is one I have a hard time understanding and seems IMO to be a root cause.

I had to laugh when I read this because I was THINKING THE SAME THING this morning on my way to work, having read this thread last night. I have 3 daughters in high school. They only have dances for Homecoming, Snowball, and Prom. They don't dance at these dances. At least not like we danced in the 70's, 80's and 90's. They jump up and down. To every song. Blew my mind when I found that out. That, and many kids "grind" against each other in a very sexual way - and the "chaparones" are either too afraid of the gangbangers to cause a scene or don't want to embarass their kid. In my work, I get to talk with lots of teens as well and hear the same thing. Many of them don't bother to go to the dances because they are this way. The only place they are dancing is "Swing Dancing", which is catching on more and more in high school and colleges in our area.

But, I was thinking that the main reason we used to go dancing was just what you said above - the chance to get close and personal in a way that was difficult otherwise. Now, kids are meeting online and hooking up. There is no romancing in the dancing anymore it seems...

It used to be big for teen girls to know and practice dance steps. My girls know ballet and swing dance, but they don't know how to dance to rock and roll!! None of their friends do either.

So - if young girls don't go out to dance to rock and roll, young guys don't go- this = a dwindling market for live bands who play rock and roll.

Country music seems to be the exception to this. Girls dance to country, so guys do too. Although I live in West Michigan, the bars that are packing them in most consistently seem to be the ones with country music played by a live band. Blues bars are doing ok too. But both of these are drawing the older demographic mostly, not the younger ones. They are going to the clubs with the DJ's.

I agree that whatever appeals to the young girls is gonna rule for the younger crowd. It seems that if you can market your music to this demographic so they have more fun when they come see you, you can be successful as a live act. Not rocket science but easier said than done... Mostly, they don't have to go anywhere to see or hear their music anymore, and when they do, DJ's put out a more consistent product. IMHO In a big way, Youtube is having a similar effect that MTV did in it's day... changing how entertainment is delivered.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

That's a fair statement and assessment, but I still don't know if I agree with it. I don't doubt that things have changed since the days of your youth and my current position as a young adult in college, but I can't help but remember the old saying, "The more things change, the more they stay the same.

I go out to the bars/clubs every weekend around UT Knoxville, and there's never a short supply of interactions between guys and girls. There are always people dancing and mingling and hooking up. I'll believe you and all you older guys that say things are different, but I will plead ignorance as I don't think I'll ever grasp just how different it really is.

Btw, I hope this doesn't come off as me arguing with you. I really am genuinely interested in learning about this sort of thing. I find it fascinating and something worth knowing for a guy my age who actually is giving the music thing a try for a few years before I absolutely HAVE to grow up

 

[bucephylus]

So - if young girls don't go out to dance to rock and roll, young guys don't go- this = a dwindling market for live bands who play rock and roll.

+1 in a nutshell.

 

[bucephylus]

That's a fair statement and assessment, but I still don't know if I agree with it. I don't doubt that things have changed since the days of your youth and my current position as a young adult in college, but I can't help but remember the old saying, "The more things change, the more they stay the same.

I go out to the bars/clubs every weekend around UT Knoxville, and there's never a short supply of interactions between guys and girls. There are always people dancing and mingling and hooking up. I'll believe you and all you older guys that say things are different, but I will plead ignorance as I don't think I'll ever grasp just how different it really is.

Btw, I hope this doesn't come off as me arguing with you. I really am genuinely interested in learning about this sort of thing. I find it fascinating and something worth knowing for a guy my age who actually is giving the music thing a try for a few years before I absolutely HAVE to grow up

Totally understand.

Put it this way: the dance occasions/halls used to be essentially the ONLY places for up close and personal socializing. What that meant was that people were going to go attend and dance, even if the band was not great. If the band was awesome, then that was just better. But the demand for the live entertainment was more or less built in.

Now, people apparently don't need to interact this way as much anymore. So, the bands are left trying to drum up interest; which can be a little like pushing on a rope. i.e. the bands have to cause people to want to go hear them vs it used to be people were already there, and so, bands were needed.

This is why many of the clubs, at least in this area, judge the band by how many people the band brings into the club. I know club managers that actually go around and take census of who came specifically to hear the band. And then you get hired back or not depending on if your number was big enough. For those of us used to the old ways, its just kind of tough.

 

[lowfreq33]

Most places you have to appeal to the college crowd if you want to stay working. Unfortunately for a lot of older musicians those kids don't really get into seeing people their dad's age up onstage, regardless of whether the material is well chosen. You can kind of get by with it if the lead singer is younger/good looking.

 

[bucephylus]

I don't know if this helps make the point or not; but...

My current band is what I would call a competent cover band; which means we know the tunes and put them across to try to make people want to dance. They are not originals and we are not trying to play concerts.

This vid is at a place in South Tempe called Dos Gringos. Its a pretty busy club. We tend to keep it busy when we work there. Though you can not see it in this vid, the place is packed. But, zero people dancing. The camera is across the dance space. No one on it. The people like the music, but they generally don't dance. Anymore. Anyway, if you care to watch it, you'll get the point.

Different Breed playing Price Tag @ Dos Gringos - YouTube

So, we are doing gigs. But, I just feel like we are pushing on a rope, because people are not coming out to dance. This is a pretty big contrast from 30 years ago when the dance floors would be packed with sweaty bodies and being in the band you'd be looking out through a haze of smoke. I don't miss the smoke at all. But, the relative lack of dancing changes the whole vibe. Turns it into more of a performance; and for a performance, I have to be the first to admit that playing dance covers (yes we do Lady Gaga) is kind of lame.

Anyway, I'm pretty close to whining here. So, I'll quit and wish you all luck with your gigs.