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Logic check for a "live sound" rig for a small gigging situation.

#21
From what I've read, if you're going to go cheapo powered speakers, try alto. I've never heard any of the behringer/harbinger/wharfdale/alto/etc but if you don't need to get loud they might get you going for cheap since you already have the other stuff. Get them from somewhere with good return policy and try them out.
 
#22
The smallest i did was:
-1 acoustic guitar
-1 bass
-1 cajun
-2 mics, one for the cajun and one for the singer
-1 8 channel powermixer
-2 PA cabs (12" + horn)
-2 XLR cables
-2 instrument cables
-2 speaker cables
-2 speaker stands
-2 mic stands
-1 power chord

That went surprisingly well for a cafe gig with approx 100 people attending.
 
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#24
OP, for a PA as you described in your opening post, I would see that everyone had their own monitor. Having said that, my band often uses much less. Our big rig is a JBL subs/mains, an independently mixed monitor for everyone, drums all mic'd, all instruments DI'd/mic'd. The rack is a A&H Mix Wizard, EQ's, Driverack, QSC amps, compressors etc. This is what we would use in a club. This Friday we're playing a tiny beer joint. I'll bring a powered 8-channel mixer, and two 12/horn mains, no monitors and nothing in the mix but vocals. Say hi if you're ever near Port Aransas.
 
#25
Chris 'Wighat' Jordan said:
OP, for a PA as you described in your opening post, I would see that everyone had their own monitor. Having said that, my band often uses much less. Our big rig is a JBL subs/mains, an independently mixed monitor for everyone, drums all mic'd, all instruments DI'd/mic'd. The rack is a A&H Mix Wizard, EQ's, Driverack, QSC amps, compressors etc. This is what we would use in a club. This Friday we're playing a tiny beer joint. I'll bring a powered 8-channel mixer, and two 12/horn mains, no monitors and nothing in the mix but vocals. Say hi if you're ever near Port Aransas.
Click to expand...

Maybe once it warms up and the reds start running again... Other than fishing I don't get over that way too often...
 
#27
Okay let's see if I have this down. So I am going to list everything together to get the job done as it were, and bold anything new that needs to be brought in...

-- Guitar players instruments including...
|-- accoustic / electric guitar, and 2 matching Stratocasters.
|-- Fender 1x12 100 watt combo guitar amp. Not positive but pretty sure it has an XLR out, and he has a cable to take it into 1/4" as he runs 1 1/4" into his mixer.
-- My instruments and accessories including...
|-- Ibanez Soundgear PJ Basses SR480 and SR500
|-- Fender Rumble V3 500 combo. Most likely huge overkill in this setup, but I know how to turn down, so no biggie... Have XLR to 1/4" TS cable, it worked with my Crate, I think it should with the Fender...
-- Drumemrs drum kit. No amplification, the drummer that we jam with understands volume.
-- No keys, but lots of synth software and loops in a laptop with a USB audio interface.
-- 2 12 input mixers, Both Behringer XENYX 1202FX mixers. (The fellow that has the other one is the guitarist, and the person that recommended it to me in the first place). And for those that want to judge based on my brand of mixer. Jam a sock in it. That old dog just won't hunt any more.
-- 6 Nady SP-5 dynamic mics with windscreens and bag
-- 3 Samson microphone boom stands.
-- 6 XLR cables (15', I want 20' for more reach to the mixer, but figure a snake would fix the reach problem...
-- Plenty of instrument cables and spares. I personally have 2 15 footers and 2 20 footers in the bag...
-- Picks, tuners, and whatnot...
-- Fog machine and "rotating light effects" machines (Halloween gear). I know, it's extra, but I have it, why not use it?
-- XLR snake. Need recommendations for this...
-- Powered speakers. Still wanting input although those Yamaha speakers look pretty good.
-- Speaker connection cables. I see the Yamaha has 1/4" inputs. I assume since it was mentioned previously they use balanced TRS cables. But when I search 1/4 speaker cable I get TS cables? I thought TRS were stereo. I am a bit confused here... What do I need to connect say those Yamaha speakers to the Behringer XENYX 1202FX mixer?
-- Speaker stands of some variety to get them up off the floor. If I am lucky enough, maybe I can afford the speakers when the stands are a freebie like they are now...

FWIW, like I mentioned that goal is a ways off, so assuming no major financial setbacks, it is actually possible, I might be able to swing a $1,500.00 budget for the left over needed stuff before we get to the point of being formed and skilled enough to want to play in front of other people that don't HAVE to listen to us (our families). Of course if we pool resources, we would be better off, but I hate the idea of having to split ownership of equipment like that... Especially if in laws get involved. It gets REALLY tricky, and I tend to be far easier on my gear than others...
 
#28
BazzTard said:
you don't REALLY need a drummer. I keep the time even if we have a drummer anyway. A drummer in a small cafe spells DANGER . It also spells LOUD. They can't play softly, it's not in them, they are well, neanderthal, hitting skins with sticks......
Click to expand...

Not all, but in general yes... Some have developed to Cro-Magnon and at least learned to bash the skins somewhat more softly with sticks...

Okay more seriously though, Not all drummers are brutal skin smashers, some are actually musicians... But for the most part I would agree, if the drummer I would be working with couldn't drum at a tolerable level in my living room, I don't want to gig with him or her...
 
#29
el murdoque said:
The smallest i did was:
-1 acoustic guitar
-1 bass
-1 cajun
-2 mics, one for the cajun and one for the singer
-1 8 channel powermixer
-2 PA cabs (12" + horn)
-2 XLR cables
-2 instrument cables
-2 speaker cables
-2 speaker stands
-2 mic stands
-1 power chord

That went surprisingly well for a cafe gig with approx 100 people attending.
Click to expand...

What instrument did the Cajun play? And just how did you get him out of the Bayou?
 
#30
I know there are quiet drummers out there....somewhere.

I've never heard or seen one. Once, many years ago, there were stories told by old men about a drummer once, who.....showed up on time, unloaded his gear BY HIMSELF and played quietly........the same men also told stories of Sasquatches and the Loch Ness monster
 
#31
Big Hoss said:
Okay let's see if I have this down. So I am going to list everything together to get the job done as it were, and bold anything new that needs to be brought in...

-- Speaker connection cables. I see the Yamaha has 1/4" inputs. I assume since it was mentioned previously they use balanced TRS cables. But when I search 1/4 speaker cable I get TS cables? I thought TRS were stereo. I am a bit confused here... What do I need to connect say those Yamaha speakers to the Behringer XENYX 1202FX mixer?
Click to expand...

Here are some TRS cables... [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

IMO, you need to look at a bit larger mixer. That one only does 4 XLR Mic inputs. Then you have to have XLR to 1/4" TRS cables for the rest. You'll be able to get 4 more Mic inputs before you're maxed out. Get something that has more inputs. I'm not dissing your choice of brand. I just want you to know how you are limiting yourself and how it looks to me that you are already going to wind up hodge podging this together by "Daisy Chaining" the mixers for those inputs. Just an observation, sir.

P.S. TRS is just a 3 wire connector/cable. Just like an XLR mic cable is a 3 wire connector/cable. TRS is not stereo, per se'. Although you can pass a stereo (Left+, Right+ and negative) signal down it. The connector, for explanation purposes, is easily envisioned when one likens it to a "Headphone Plug".
 
#32
Scott Waldy said:
Here are some TRS cables... [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

IMO, you need to look at a bit larger mixer. That one only does 4 XLR Mic inputs. Then you have to have XLR to 1/4" TRS cables for the rest. You'll be able to get 4 more Mic inputs before you're maxed out. Get something that has more inputs. I'm not dissing your choice of brand. I just want you to know how you are limiting yourself and how it looks to me that you are already going to wind up hodge podging this together by "Daisy Chaining" the mixers for those inputs. Just an observation, sir.

P.S. TRS is just a 3 wire connector/cable. Just like an XLR mic cable is a 3 wire connector/cable. TRS is not stereo, per se'. Although you can pass a stereo (Left+, Right+ and negative) signal down it. The connector, for explanation purposes, is easily envisioned when one likens it to a "Headphone Plug".
Click to expand...

I figure the mixer will have 3 mics and 1/4" coming grommets the guitar and bass amps. Wasn't planning on daisy chaining mixers.

XLR to TRS cables are easy enough...
 
#34
BazzTard said:
I know there are quiet drummers out there....somewhere.

I've never heard or seen one. Once, many years ago, there were stories told by old men about a drummer once, who.....showed up on time, unloaded his gear BY HIMSELF and played quietly........the same men also told stories of Sasquatches and the Loch Ness monster
Click to expand...

Hey now... I'm pretty sure I saw a sasquatch in Oregon one weekend on a bourbon bender back in college...
 
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#37
Don't forget something to put it all in! Duffels or tupperwares for stands and cables, case/cover for speakers and mixers, and the almighty Velcro wrap for taking cables! Organization makes everyone's life easier with small PA's.
 
#39
Big Hoss said:
-- XLR snake. Need recommendations for this...
-- Powered speakers. Still wanting input although those Yamaha speakers look pretty good.
-- Speaker connection cables. I see the Yamaha has 1/4" inputs. I assume since it was mentioned previously they use balanced TRS cables. But when I search 1/4 speaker cable I get TS cables? I thought TRS were stereo. I am a bit confused here... What do I need to connect say those Yamaha speakers to the Behringer XENYX 1202FX mixer?
Click to expand...
Unless you have the mixer out front and someone running sound you don't need a snake. The mixer will be onstage. If you do need a snake seismic audio has best prices. I've had one of their 12 channel double fans for several years and it's work well.

The connectors on the yamahas are xlr/1/4 combo. They will take either. The main outs on the 1202 are unbalanced, meaning you can probably use a trs but only need ts. You could probably get by with instrument cables...I think...but typically a mixer will have balanced outs and you would need a cable like this Invalid Link Removed (short but you can connect it to any mic cable to lengthen) or this http://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessories/live-wire-trs--trs-balanced-patch-cable

Balanced vs unblanced (my meager understanding, I'm electrically challenged)--the third wire is a leg with the same signal but any noise picked up will be out of phase and canceled. This allows longer cables without picking up noise. Using an instrument cable will probably be fine for short runs but it acts like an antenna and will pick up stuff. The longer the cable, the bigger the antenna. I have used regular ts speaker cables to connect mixer to powered speaker in a pinch.

Never use an instrument cable to connect an amp to a speaker. Instrument cables have shielding (a layer of metal around the two wires) to help with the antenna properties. Instrument and mixer signals are low power. Amp signals are not. The shielding is bad juju for the high power signal. Speaker cables do not have shielding because of this but it does mean they are more likely to pick up noise. Amp to speaker cables should be as short as possible. Another advantage of powered speakers is the amp is always connected to the speaker and you don't have to worry about that.
 
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#40
If you want to sound good, some processing is in order, at least a small EQ and some form of compression. Smallest gig I'd ever run was two vocals, bass and acoustic guitar. House had a 6-channel powered mixer and two Yamaha 15" mains, elevated to cover the room. I brought my GK BL600 and my Acme LowB2 and kept the volume reasonable. The mains were suspended towards the back of the stage, and monitoring was good with no feedback.

My personal small rig is a B52 Matrix 1000 rig, which is two satellites and a powered sub, a small mixer (Behringer), with outboard EQ, compression and vocal effects, with my bass going direct from my Zoom B9.1ut, acoustic/electric guitar and keys doing the same. Drums are typically not monitored but the guys I occasionally work with have brushes and a different beater head for their kick specifically for small shows. Yes, I've found not one, but two drummers who know how to play at lower volume.
 

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