Looking to buy recording software / DAW and computer

[rudy4444]

I have a PC that I use for CAD drawing, video editing, and audio work in a DAW. I use Reaper for audio and video editing, which wets me back $60 for the personal license. You get Reaper updates for quite a while for the cost of a license, so it's a bargain.

MS updates and anti-virus stuff makes the average PC unusable, so I purchase a "re-furb", usually around $150, and set it up to run totally off the internet. This has worked great for me, and I've used the same Windows 7 PC for several years. I'm getting ready to get a newer "refurb" with Windows 10 pro and I'll do the same thing with that one.

Any interaction with the internet such as uploading to Youtube or transferring a audio interface driver to the PC is done by moving by flash drive to/from my Chromebook.

Just set up another "re-furbished" PC for my needs and it has been the smoothest changeover I've ever done. Purchased from Amazon, it looks like a brand new machine, has Windows 10 Pro, 3.7ghz Intel processor, a 500 GB solid state drive, 64 bit platform, DVD drive, mini-sized box, and set me back $139. It shipped with a separate wireless network USB dongle, but I will not be using that. Plenty of the right ports and was up and running in minutes.

I'm using the 64 bit version of Reaper, so a new license fee is in order. I love Cockos's business model, and their product just works. What more can you ask for?

 

[DirtDog]

Thanks everyone for your wise words. This was a last minute, under-researched purchase for me, and, though it wasn't necessarily the cheapest route, and I may find that something else would have better suited my needs, I went ahead and bought a Macbook Pro with the M1 processor and Logic. We'll see how that ends up working for me as 2023 gets underway. Happy new year to all of you, and thanks again for your help!

You won’t regret it. Logic packs a huge punch for a reasonably priced piece of software.

What are you considering for an interface?

 

[soulstew]

Good question. I have a $225 of Best Buy rewards dollars. They carry the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 and 4i4, and a few presonus models. Here's their selection: Link Removed
I'm happy for any recommendations. This is my first DAW/home recording rodeo

 

[tothemax]

Depending on what gear you already have, once you start down the DAW rabbit hole there is a mix of GAS and necessary dependencies (cables, microphones, etc...). It's not necessarily a bad thing, just something to consider. I had a Presonus Audiobox for a short while so that I would have an interface in my home office, and returned it after finding out that the unit was limited in the line/Inst. input switching, unfortunately I can't remember exactly what the issue was and it might have been one of the earlier releases. I guess my point is that the interface is the main workhorse and you might as well get the most bang for your buck. Read the reviews and figure out your needs, more channels are usually better. For example if you want to record a DI channel, mic your amp, run a drum machine, and add vocals - there's four channels right away. The Scarlett 4i4 is in your link, something along those lines would be a good start.

If you have a stage mic and cable that's a good start, I had an SM58 and used that for my first recordings (vocals). Many moons ago I picked up a 3 pack of Digital Reference SM57 clones, they still make them (DRI100) and while not the same quality as a Shure, they're not bad mics and I still use them quite a bit. They work well for mic'ing amp cabs. When I was looking for an all around large diaphragm condenser mic, the sales rep at Sweetwater recommended an SE X1 A, at $99 it's really been a nice addition to my mic collection. And so the journey begins... my focus is not so much on gear but getting good recordings with the gear I have.

Cheers and good luck...

 

[soulstew]

Depending on what gear you already have, once you start down the DAW rabbit hole there is a mix of GAS and necessary dependencies (cables, microphones, etc...). It's not necessarily a bad thing, just something to consider. I had a Presonus Audiobox for a short while so that I would have an interface in my home office, and returned it after finding out that the unit was limited in the line/Inst. input switching, unfortunately I can't remember exactly what the issue was and it might have been one of the earlier releases. I guess my point is that the interface is the main workhorse and you might as well get the most bang for your buck. Read the reviews and figure out your needs, more channels are usually better. For example if you want to record a DI channel, mic your amp, run a drum machine, and add vocals - there's four channels right away. The Scarlett 4i4 is in your link, something along those lines would be a good start.

If you have a stage mic and cable that's a good start, I had an SM58 and used that for my first recordings (vocals). Many moons ago I picked up a 3 pack of Digital Reference SM57 clones, they still make them (DRI100) and while not the same quality as a Shure, they're not bad mics and I still use them quite a bit. They work well for mic'ing amp cabs. When I was looking for an all around large diaphragm condenser mic, the sales rep at Sweetwater recommended an SE X1 A, at $99 it's really been a nice addition to my mic collection. And so the journey begins... my focus is not so much on gear but getting good recordings with the gear I have.

Cheers and good luck...

Thanks for that helpful info. You're exactly right about the gas/necessities tension. I'm leaning towards the Scarlett 4i4 right now, but I have a little time before my reward dollars expire, and am interested in hearing more about pros/cons of it and other interfaces.

 

[Mighty Thumb]

I have a Gen 2 Scarlett 2i4 and an Audient EVO 4 at home. For the band we use a Gen 2 Scarlett 18i20. I much prefer the Scarlett’s over the EVO which has been kind of buggy for me.

 

[soulstew]

Here comes the GAS part. I'm also reading about the Presonus Quantum, which uses thunderbolt instead of USB and brings latency down the the point where (if I understand correcly) there is no need to monitor inputs, hence no input mixer screen. From what I've read, it is simpler to use. It's $700 instead of $249, so will take a few more gigs to pay for, and I'll never need as many tracks as it provides, but it's ultra low latency and maybe a bit more future proof. The Macbook has Thunderbolt 4 ports, so it's ready to go in that respect.

 

[Tosh]

I would point you to a MOTU interface for use with a Mac. The Ultralite Mk5 (USBC) is $600; the M6 (USBC) is $400.

USBC and Thunderbolt 3 are equivalent in performance. The TB4 speed advantage is negligible.

I find that MOTU support for Mac is very good, and the hardware is extremely durable.

The latency I get with my 2020 Mini + Logic 10.7 & my 828ES (TB2) is less than 3ms round trip. I can't hear it (I have excellent hearing for someone my age).

All of these new interfaces have a software GUI that you're going to want to learn and use, but the MOTU has hardware knobs and an LCD display that makes it easy to use the interface without looking at a computer screen. They can be used stand-alone, without a computer.

 

[DirtDog]

Good question. I have a $225 of Best Buy rewards dollars. They carry the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 and 4i4, and a few presonus models. Here's their selection: Link Removed
I'm happy for any recommendations. This is my first DAW/home recording rodeo

That's a pretty good choice right out of the gate. My journey has had me go through a variety of interfaces (incl. the Scarlett 6i6).

For me, the discriminating factors are workflow and form factor. Latency and audio quality differences between different hardware units are pretty much undetectable to my ears! I'm sure they're there, just that I don't have the advanced senses for it to make a difference to me! Same with connection, USB seems to work just fine for me.

I wanted something that I can just fire up and works. I have a number of different inputs I wanted to accommodate (bass, guitar, synths), so I opted for rack mounted 8 channel interface (Presonus 1824c). Front mounted gain controls, rear mounted inout jacks, level VU, monitor and headphone volume controls (and two independent headphone jacks).

I've tried a bunch of pretty good to pretty basic stuff over the years (MOTU 828 Mk III, Mackie, Focusrite, M-Audio and so on). I'm pretty happy with what I have but I am VERY tempted by the UAD Apollo stuff (if only to have the coveted Distressor plug-in).

Oh, and by the way, once you have the main software/hardware issues taken care of, the plug-in world is a deep, deep rabbit hole!

Have fun!

 

[Aloe]

Here comes the GAS part. I'm also reading about the Presonus Quantum, which uses thunderbolt

Thunderbolt interfaces are nice, but current Quantum (2626) is sub-par (not flexible IO routing, MIDI bugs that never got solved and build quality). I'd wait for the new generation.

Re Audiobox and Scarlett -- they're both good starter interfaces. I prefer Focusrite and my picks would be either 18i8 or Clarett 4Pre (in fact, I own a discontinued Thunderbolt version of it). I'm biased as I like how Focusrire's mic preamps sound (albeit not very fond of the in-build DIs), they have strong natural mids to my ears. Audiobox is more sparkly and also sounds good, but in a different way.

which way you'll go, one more advice: avoid bus-powered interfaces (no PSU, only USB/Thunderbolt that powers it as well), bus power is a common source of noise.

 

[Aloe]

USBC and Thunderbolt 3 are equivalent in performance.

err, nope. you won't get latency that down (like sub-4ms RTT) on a USB-C interface, that's how USB works.

it's possible to make a slow Thunderbolt interface (hello, UAD), but not possible to make a really fast USB one. just because the USB doesn't allow this.

 

[Tosh]

Specs | MOTU.com

MOTU claims 2.5 MS round trip latency with Mac or Windows

 

[Aloe]

MOTU claims 2.5 MS round trip latency with Mac or Windows

I believe, you were intending to reply me, so I will comment. yeah, I believe that Motu can deliver 2.5ms of RTT with 32 samples rate at ideal conditions. however:

1. I prefer to use limiters on the monitor outputs, my ears don't like it when I forget it. this adds like 1.5ms to RTT.
2. in ~10 years of recording with a DAW, I've never yet met a setup that was usable at 32 samples, my M1 Pro isn't an exception. the same time I actually play some polyphonic virtual instument (like Kontakt or Addictive Keys) I immediately feel it. sometimes just a reverb to the mix is enough to feel it.
3. now compare that to a Quantum, the same number should be sub-1ms there. I believe, it should be sub-ms even twice the buffers (at 64). no USB MOTU or RME will approach it.

I might be wrong by specifying the number (and no explanations) in my post above, but from my experience, TB interfaces are superior to the USB ones as:
1. they can be faster. the difference between Clarett USB and Clarett Thunderbolt on the same computer is like 1.5-2ms constant value. sometimes, it's enough to be felt.
2. they work more stable, especially on lower sample rates, IME. the USB bus isn't really meant for real-time applications, it has a polling rate, while TB devices are equivalent of PCIe and don't have those drawbacks. the problem becomes more pronounced if you have other devices on the same USB controller.

this said, there's nothing wrong with a good USB audio interface plugged into a good computer. but personally for me it's hard to justify one since I jumped on the TB wagon in the days of TBv1 and felt the difference. I still can feel it, I own some USB interfaces (including recent purchases), but prefer to record with my TB one. it's not that USB audio interfaces are bad, it's the TB that can be even better. but sure it will be more expensive.

P.S. and yes, actually the whole minimal latency thing is not really important for a lot of folks. things like direct monitoring exist and are widely used (with some vendors you even can use plugins on the direct monitoring), if you use one, the latency of your interface doesn't bother you at all. but for some workflows (like if you play a virtual instrument) you'd wish to have it low.

 

[TOOL460002]

I was in the same place as you in October and I decided to not build another Windows machine with Cubase/Reason (and Pro Tools but I regret every dollar I have bled to Avid) and buy a Mac (studio). I took a Logic class in 2004, so... it has changed a tad... But it's nice. I would say it's closer to Reason in that it's a really fun instrument and the interface is intuitive.

I got a used Solid State Logic SSL2+ but did the GAS thing and now have a small rack of stuff. Got a used Presonus 1824C and really like the configuration. It came with Studio One, so I have been giving that a go, but the navigation is more like Pro Tools so I immediately hate it. Some hot keys and navigation tools are neat, but it seems like an unnecessary DAW.

I got Ableton with a keyboard and am taking a advanced class on that in 8 weeks, so I think I will have used 7 DAWs at home and in the classroom. It qualifies me for nothing but I definitely know what I like. Thus far it is Cubase/Reason but the live MIDI stuff I'm looking to do seems to require an Ableton product.

 

[tothemax]

Following up on a video I watched the other day. I'm pretty sure that you went with Apple on your system but I'll share this for others. One of the cool items that Cakewalk / Sonar has is called the Pro Channel - which is basically a small rack of integrated plugins on each channel. The video below has an overview of the Pro Channel and starts at about 21:00. I have been dinking around with this feature for a bit, but actually watching a few tutorials was very helpful. Duh? Thought I would share.

​

 

[seamonkey]

Pro Channel - which is basically a small rack of integrated plugins on each channel.

Other DAWs have forms of this too.

For example, Studio one will allow you to copy/paste channel settings and all the plugins on one track to another. Even from song to song.

Outside the DAW, Kushview element, is a plugin where you can gather other plugins, then just add it to tracks. Then save the configuration in a preset. It also works standalone outside of the DAW. I use it standalone quite a bit just to noodle around or try out new plugins.
Kushview

DAWs are getting better all the time. Good features in one find themselves in other DAWs eventrually.

 

[NataliaGill]

If you're comfortable with both Macs and Windows, you'll find plenty of great options on both platforms. While Apple gear/software is awesome, it can be pricier. But here's the deal: you can definitely get high-quality recording software for Windows at a more budget-friendly price.

 

[NataliaGill]

If you enjoyed GarageBand's user-friendly interface, starting with it is a smart move. And yes, you can smoothly transition to Logic later since the files are compatible. Remember, it's all about finding the right fit for your needs and budget. Check out some deals on Invalid Link Removed. Now go rock that album, unleash your creativity, and have a blast making music!

 

[Aloe]

Check out some deals on Invalid Link Removed.

but why? modern windows got a much inferiour low-latency implementation than a modern mac, like just everywhere. the whole 'dpc latency' problem is windows-specific

there's only one DAW, available on Windows, but not on a Mac, it's the Cakewalk. it could be justified, while it was free, but it's not the case anymore. Logic Pro is a terrific value for $199, all comparable options on Windows are much more expensive.

 

[getbent]

I was an avid and enthusiastic GarageBand user for at least a decade, but they kept paring away the useful loops and features. The obvious move would've been to upgrade to Logic, but I was done with Apple and their proprietary stuff. I instead bought a reconditioned Windows PC and started using Reaper at least 5 years ago and I've been quite pleased. There was a minor learning curve, mostly because it's a more advanced DAW than GarageBand, but nothing too heavy. So if you're happy with Apple and have experience with GarageBand, Logic is a logical next step. If you don't have your heart set on Apple, then Reaper is an excellent (and cheap) product.