Loud Guitarists, What are my Amp Options?

[two fingers]

In your next rehearsal, just stop playing. For like two whole songs just don't play. Then announce to the band that they are all so involved in their own little worlds that they didn't even realize they didn't have a bass player for two songs.

That's the only way I have ever been able to get the point across.

Volume wars are dumb.


But if you must go down that road, the ONLY thing that makes for a ton more volume is more speaker surface area.

The only way even THAT will work is if you completely "win" the volume war. You turn up so loud that they stop playing because they've been drowned out. Then simply tell them either ALL of your volumes come down or NOBODY'S does.

Borrow or rent an SVT and two 810 cabs.


What kinds of bars do you play that don't kick you out with Marshall 4-12????

 

[ThisBass]

Furthermore, the guitar players don't wear earplugs because it "effects the tone they hear".

Absolutely, the audiologist will clearly identify the tone they hear after a while of playing.

 

[funkmaster p]

I started wearing earplugs, mostly to avoid ringing in my ears after gigs. I was surprised to find that I was better able to hear what I was playing through my amp. My guess is that I am working with older players that have damaged hearing, and they end up cranking the high end on their amps to compensate.

Try it. It could potentially work for you and it is a low cost solution.

 

[ThisBass]

In your next rehearsal, just stop playing.

Very funny, in a very loud band it actually may take some time till the rest of the band does really notice that there is no bass sound anymore.
Sad to say but I have known it to happen.

 

[ArtechnikA]

1) IEM's so you can hear what you're playing. They'll also block stage volume.
2) shoes. walk.

There's nothing wrong with having big hardware onstage if you have room and roadies to shlep. I promise no one in the audience will know if it's all connected...

 

[Nephilymbass]

You are correct that is the amp, but the headphones mute the cabs. That being said.....

My other band handles things professionally, that band's guitarist uses a Kemper and we all have in-ears. Stage volume is dictated by the drummer, who plays to the room. We each have our own mix and life is great.

The other band's guitarists are for sure 80s fans and their tone/gear reflect this. We have high powered floor monitors that are used for IDK what and they're just as loud as the mains! I've dropped the hint many times about IEMs, the drummer is all for it as well.....we can only hope. Furthermore, the guitar players don't wear earplugs because it "effects the tone they hear".

Yikes

Yeah that's a tough situation. Well at least keep protecting your own ears. I wish you luck with this.

 

[two fingers]

1) IEM's so you can hear what you're playing. They'll also block stage volume.
2) shoes. walk.

There's nothing wrong with having big hardware onstage if you have room and roadies to shlep. I promise no one in the audience will know if it's all connected...

Actually, in a band like that, your safest (literally) bet is to go in-ears. Use your ear monitors to both hear yourself and block out the childre *cough* guitar players.

 

[chadds]

Play music then you won't have this problem. Distorted guitars which are by effect compressed can be played at any volume. I play with the understudy or substitute guitarist of a very famous metal group so I'm not talking out my &$$ here.
If they won't turn down and keep it down then find some new mates. I mean long range plans should include keeping your hearing and being able to play bass in multiple genres. Yes you will outlive those guitarists.
I've beat them in the volume wars twice live.
Once in the early '70s with an Acoustic 360 second with 1500w of Bergantino IP. Either way were you making music as a band? After their eyebrows rise they forget how to play.
Like yourself enough to find the right musical situation where you're a contributing member.

 

[seanm]

I just gave up When I went much over 50% I just accepted that the bass and vocals would not be heard well by everybody.

The guitar players amp beamed like crazy. So everybody in front of the amp suffered. But if I cranked the bass amp and the vocals (I controlled the PA) *everybody* suffered. So I didn't even try to compete.

 

[Stranger Danger]

The only way to win the volume war is to not play.

 

[themeanreds]

I suggest that you have them each get a HPF and adjust it to take the bottom end mud out of their rigs. They'll still get their "tone" but it'll leave more of a slot for you.

Go FOH and determine what mix sounds best and where to set the HPFs. I think the whole band mix will sound more balanced if you can get this done.

Some guitarists want to sound HUGE, and feel like the way to get their pants flapping is to play with a crapload of low end. They also want to "cut through the mix" without sounding "muddy," so they kill the mids and crank the treble. The result is usually a band that sounds small, muddy, and shrill.

Ask them to listen to the band with the usual mix, and compare to a mix in which the guitars have less bass and more midrange.
If they refuse: quit.
If they listen, and still think that the usual mix is better: quit.
If they agree that slimmer guitar lows and fatter guitar mids make the entire band (guitars included) sound better: You will be in a better-sounding band that enjoys far friendlier soundpeople.

Exception: Your band's MO is to sound like one giant instrument (in which case you are probably playing some kind of sludge/doom/sweaty beard music). Even then, however, the bands that sound best/biggest/heaviest tend to have guitars with present mids.

 

[zon6c-f]

I'm currently in two bands and run a Fender Rumble800 Head with two 2x10 Rumble cabs. Thats giving me 800w into what amounts to a 4x10.

In my one band I play with two guitarists that each use Marshall tube heads with 4x12 cabs...scooped eq, Sonic Maximizer pedal all the dastardly tricks to take over all the lower registers. Yes we play local bars, and yes this is stupid.

That being said, the volume discussion has been had, and still their volume creeps up set after set. I don't want to get into the human nature aspect of this debate, just the technical specs side.

Would a single 4x10 enclosure provide any different volume boost via frequencies or just the tone from a bigger box closer to the floor? Or do I have to go with 2 4x10s to get into this territory? I feel like my old Carvin BX500 with a Carvin 4x10 cab, 4ohm, seemed to give me all the volume in the world.

Yes I know this is stupid, bringing what amounts to an 8x10 to bar gigs due to the fact that guitar players are going to be guitar players....but what are my options? Thanks in advance friends!

Stacks cranked to 11??
Best remedies: Acoustic 361 or ACC 320/408 then if they don't turn down tell em you're turning up to 4!!!

 

[ThisBass]

I just gave up When I went much over 50% I just accepted that the bass and vocals would not be heard well by everybody.

The guitar players amp beamed like crazy. So everybody in front of the amp suffered. But if I cranked the bass amp and the vocals (I controlled the PA) *everybody* suffered. So I didn't even try to compete.

The night before I listened to a band (two guitars and bass) which had a very brilliant and livelike sound in the early days of playing.
Over the time they added more of effects to the guitars and vocals to improve the total sound while to the contrary they overloaded the total performance which made the total sound even worse.
Sometimes it happens that too much of an sound effect does cause the opposite then mentioned.
Unfortunatelly especially non pro folks buy and try anything without knowledgement. An advertisement paper of a new product that predicts a "special new" sound does not create an pro soundengineer you could do on your own.

Personally I prefer a rather thight reverbaration on vocals cause it helps to improve sound quality of the instruments in the total mix.
Same consideration is valid for 6-string (pedal) effects, etc.

 

[Aidenn7]

Guitarist need Attenuators.. You need a high pass set to 37hz.. And to punch the mids

 

[jamro217]

I'd show up early and set up with a Peavey Max 126 amp and a Hello Kitty bass on a stand ready to go. When the guitar gods show up and start to throw a tantrum over it, that's when you explain how you refuse to put your paying customers (the audience) at risk (for a lifetime of the torture of tinnitus) in order to satisfy their egos. Turn it down or see ya. There surely must be other bands in your area that would appreciate your services more than these cretins do.

 

[SactoBass]

Exception: Your band's MO is to sound like one giant instrument (in which case you are probably playing some kind of sludge/doom/sweaty beard music).

LMAO! That "sweaty beard" comment cracked me up!

 

[themeanreds]

Also, to the OP:

Do you think that your band sounds good live?

If not (and given what you are sharing about the guitarists, I am wondering. . .), then you are sweating hearing yourself/being heard in a crap sounding band. If the guitarists are not willing or able to do what needs to be done to get the band sounding good, then is this the hill that you want to die on?

 

[themeanreds]

LMAO! That "sweaty beard" comment cracked me up!

I have no tattoos, and these days, very rarely much facial hair. At shows, I look like a record store clerk at a biker rally.

 

[mc900ftj]

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Mmmmmmmm...1980's Kustom goodness.

 

[byacey]

Just a couple of ideas.

Sometime when they aren't looking, disconnect 2 speakers, or preferably 3 each.

Continuing with my previous suggestion: ... and you can also use these for disconnecting speakers, guitar cables, and even strings... Oh, and AC line cords... appendages...
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