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Loud Guitarists, What are my Amp Options?

twc1313

twc1313

Practice is the cure for GAS...or so I've heard.
Oct 28, 2013
763
1,719
Pittsburgh, Pa
#1
I'm currently in two bands and run a Fender Rumble800 Head with two 2x10 Rumble cabs. Thats giving me 800w into what amounts to a 4x10.

In my one band I play with two guitarists that each use Marshall tube heads with 4x12 cabs...scooped eq, Sonic Maximizer pedal all the dastardly tricks to take over all the lower registers. Yes we play local bars, and yes this is stupid.

That being said, the volume discussion has been had, and still their volume creeps up set after set. I don't want to get into the human nature aspect of this debate, just the technical specs side.

Would a single 4x10 enclosure provide any different volume boost via frequencies or just the tone from a bigger box closer to the floor? Or do I have to go with 2 4x10s to get into this territory? I feel like my old Carvin BX500 with a Carvin 4x10 cab, 4ohm, seemed to give me all the volume in the world.

Yes I know this is stupid, bringing what amounts to an 8x10 to bar gigs due to the fact that guitar players are going to be guitar players....but what are my options? Thanks in advance friends!
 
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#2
twc1313 said:
I'm currently in two bands and run a Fender Rumble800 Head with two 2x10 Rumble cabs. Thats giving me 800w into what amounts to a 4x10.

In my one band I play with two guitarists that each use Marshall tube heads with 4x12 cabs. Yes we play local bars, and yes this is stupid.

That being said, the volume discussion has been had, and still their volume creeps up set after set. I don't want to get into the human nature aspect of this debate, just the technical specs side.

Would a single 4x10 enclosure provide any different volume boost via frequencies or just the tone from a bigger box closer to the floor? Or do I have to go with 2 4x10s to get into this territory? I feel like my old Carvin BX500 with a Carvin 4x10 cab, 4ohm, seemed to give me all the volume in the world.

Yes I know this is stupid, bringing what amounts to an 8x10 to bar gigs due to the fact that guitar players are going to be guitar players....but what are my options? Thanks in advance friends!
Click to expand...
Get 412s or a 610
 
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#5
I suggest that you have them each get a HPF and adjust it to take the bottom end mud out of their rigs. They'll still get their "bedroom tone" but it'll leave more of a slot for you.

Go FOH and determine what mix sounds best and where to set the HPFs. I think the whole band mix will sound more balanced if you can get this done.
 
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#6
Stumbo said:
I suggest that you have them each get a HPF and adjust it to take the bottom end mud out of their rigs. They'll still get their "tone" but it'll leave more of a slot for you.

Go FOH and determine what mix sounds best and where to set the HPFs. I think the whole band mix will sound more balanced if you can get this done.
Click to expand...

I think this is a better idea in general, or anyway to get them to turn down. Realistically, even if I roll in with a SVT and Fridge, they will probably just go from 5 to 9 on their master volumes and I'd be right back in the same spot. Oddly enough, my Pbass seems to work best and the perceived volume issue isn't too bad. Just wish I could play my jazz bass!
 
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#8
Stumbo said:
PBass has more mids. Try the bridge pickup on your J and playing over it. And see if you can pickup your own adjustable HPF.
Click to expand...

Another good point. I'm assuming since they both use super scooped eq settings, that my Jazz with both pickups is falling right into the same territory. The Pbass, Jazz bridge, or Stingray would give me more of the opposite of their eq and let me exist where they don't. Good stuff!
 
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#9
twc1313 said:
Good point, the Fender Bassman 6x10 would fit both in design and looks. Wondering if I can fit the damn thing in my Hyundai lol.
Click to expand...
You’d be surprised what you can fit in a little car. I hauled an SWR 610 in a two door Chevy cavalier for several years. Right now I’m putting a 410 and a 15 cab in a Mitsubishi Lancer. It is nice to have a truck or good sized SUV (not to be confused with crossovers) for loud bands, just makes it much easier to haul big gear. But two medium sized cabs will fit in most vehicles unless they are little two seaters
 
#14
twc1313 said:
In my one band I play with two guitarists that each use Marshall tube heads with 4x12 cabs
Click to expand...

Get some big freaking ear plugs and get a big rid like this

jae-76_sunnstacks-jpg.1330770


Or just pretend to play … don't even plug in … because nobody is going to hear you anyway

:bassist::bassist::bassist::bassist::bassist:

but really ... there is no need for guitarist to use a 4x12 cab ... those suckers are low midrange monsters. They will trample all over the space of the bass player.

With modern amps, effects, and pa systems a guitar player does not anything more than a 30 watt 1x12 combo

When the guitar and drums get too loud I stop playing and plug my ears … if they don't get the message then I quit the band
 
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#15
ahhhh volume wars??? no thanks. your guitarists need to grow up. or the correct response is they are simply uninformed. All they are doing now is eating up all the frequencies. what's the point of playing if you can't add anything to the equation?
their EQ should have the bass flat, or better yet cut a little bit. these guys are going by what sounds good in their bedrooms, not in a live band context. to be fair we bass players can do similar things too, but there is a place for all instruments and every instrument in its place.
 
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#16
The solution is not to add more volume!

Search ''too loud guitarists'' in band management forum. Lots written in there on alternative ways to end the volume war.

Assuming you aren't going to go nuclear on them the other options all involve changing what the guitars do.

Elevate the rigs. ''Wah that sounds terrible''. ''That's what it sounds like out front you halfwits''.

Take away the 100w amps and replace them with 10w amps. ''WAAAAAAAAAAAAA'' ''Now everyone can hear the vocals you halfwits''.

Take away the 412's and replace with 112's. ''WAAAA it's got no lows'' ''what do you think I am here for you halfwits?"
 
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#17
Use steel round wound strings and a pick. That will poke through.

I used to do sound in a large venue and the bass was usually muddled with little note definition. The one advice I always gave the players - the cheapest, most effective way to be heard - use a pick. Most would look at me curiously. But in a muddled live environment it works pretty well.
 
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#18
on your jazz, EITHER pickup solod will give you a ton more mids. neck pickup solo is vaguely similar to a P bass, although noisier and not as good sounding... definitely cuts more than both pickups on full with a jazz bass.

they should NOT be scooping tone with lots of bass. First thing to do as a guitarist is learn music history. who invented one of the best metal sounds? Led Zep. Page had almost no bass in his tone because he had Jones. He cut it because of his bassist, among other things. heavy with bass playing similar parts, otherwise not heavy at all.

black sabbath too. I know they're ancient, but important historical examples of how to get a heavy tone without overtaking the bass guitar.

dream theater, for newer example - he doesn't drown out the bass with his guitar - although Myung is NEVER loud enough on their albums.
 
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