Loud Guitarists, What are my Amp Options?

[nilorius]

Explore your amp gain, eq and master volume possibilities, try out different ways.

 

[ThinCrappyTone]

I’ve been there. Deafening 100 watt boogie triple recs on either side. Deafening drummer in the middle. Requests for reasonable volume falling on literally deaf ears. The only answer for me was was quit or use two bass stacks, one on each side. At that point, the make, watts and configuration were secondary. Amount of cone was the difference between being heard or not.

ymmv ime imo and im no bass scientist and all that

 

[Mugre]

The only way to win the volume game is don't play.

If they don't care that they or the audience can't hear you and even more so, that you're probably driving people out of the room, get a different band. One of my biggest problem with modern metal is that it seems to be more concerned with hitting some kind of sonic impact benchmark than it is with making interesting music.

mugre

 

[Andy Daventry]

I disagree. Any amp can be turned down. ....

I disagree, in turn. Any amp can be turned down EXCEPT for a valve head through 4x12 with a guitarist in search of his tone plugged in the other end. The only thing that will stop volume creep is a smaller amp that just won't turn up any more.

 

[Ric5]

I remember about 20 years ago I played in a band where one guitar had a 4x12 and the other had 2 4x12 and we had a drummer who could drown them both out … We would mike all of the drums but the sound man would pull all of the sliders all of the way down because he was so loud acoustically … they kept bass drum mike on … but it wasn't gated so it would pick up my bass notes and wolf tone them back into the PA at about 30hz … it was a disaster playing live with that band I quit after a few months

 

[Ric5]

4x12 cabs are actually pretty good for bass and they can be good for guitar if the guitar turns down … but the 4x12 is pretty much overkill

 

[BassDad1964]

Whoa, what the heck is that? What is even the science behind that monstrosity?

I had that Kustom cabinet with the 4 15's when I first stated playing bass as a teenager. Dad went to the music store and whatever "salesman" he walked up to first unloaded it on him. It was a going out of business sale. Next week the store was gone and being a dumb teenager I played through that beast for over a year. I used to stand right in front of it and wonder why I couldn't hear it. I had to buy a vehicle with a large enough area to haul it around in.

I eventually sold it to another dumb teenager.

 

[GrapeBass]

If the guitarists are using sealed 412s I'd personally stay away from 12s. IME the tonal flavor would be too similar by everyone using 12s.

 

[J-Mags]

I disagree, in turn. Any amp can be turned down EXCEPT for a valve head through 4x12 with a guitarist in search of his tone plugged in the other end. The only thing that will stop volume creep is a smaller amp that just won't turn up any more.

Once you've got "a guitarist in search of his tone," you it doesn't matter what kind of equipment he's playing, you should quit the band. And I say this as a guitarist.

You can't ask a metal band to play a 1x12. You'd have a better chance asking them to down or use a lower-watt head (which wouldn't be that much quieter, but which hopefully would have less low end).

I played a Quilter 200 through a 4x12 with my to guitar tuned to C with enough bass for a good solid chunk on the palm mutes and there was plenty of room for bass. The scooped guitar sound is a nightmare.

 

[Siggy]

I'm usually more passive aggressive. I don't turn up. When they say "We can't hear you!" I tell them to "Turn down". Of course I'm "old" and don't put up with the "PUP" mindset anymore. It should be about the show, not the ego.

 

[Andy Daventry]

Once you've got "a guitarist in search of his tone," you it doesn't matter what kind of equipment he's playing, you should quit the band. And I say this as a guitarist.

You can't ask a metal band to play a 1x12. You'd have a better chance asking them to down or use a lower-watt head (which wouldn't be that much quieter, but which hopefully would have less low end).

I played a Quilter 200 through a 4x12 with my to guitar tuned to C with enough bass for a good solid chunk on the palm mutes and there was plenty of room for bass. The scooped guitar sound is a nightmare.

Metal....Ah. We weren't playing metal. A 112 is not essential, but the smaller amp thing I still stand by.

 

[coyote1]

I disagree, in turn. Any amp can be turned down EXCEPT for a valve head through 4x12 with a guitarist in search of his tone plugged in the other end. The only thing that will stop volume creep is a smaller amp that just won't turn up any more.

I’ve been, and remain, one of those guitarists.

To me, the inherent problem here is that ‘musicians’ don’t understand music. The only way you can truly grasp it is to play the other instruments, in a band context. Then you learn to not see yourself at war with your bandmates, but to see yourselves in a cooperative venture together. Also, sound engineers are often control freaks who see themselves as the star, and don’t grasp that their true role is to support the band’s performance.

You can be loud enough on guitar to get your tone. You can hit the drums hard. That can all happen, AND the bassist can be heard clearly with good tone AND the singer(s) can be heard clearly etc.

And unless the gig room is tiny (in which case they should not be hiring heavy rock bands in the first place), it can all sound great without driving everyone out of the room.

It’s not rocket surgery. It just requires everyone to open their ears a bit.

To me, the optimal equipment config for rock guitarists is a “mini stack” consisting of a combo amp atop a vertical deep 2x12. It gets the sound up in the ears of that player so he can hear himself. It also supplies the bottom he seeks via the deep 2x12 plus the floor coupling.... while, from an overall mix perspective, not getting in the way of the bassist (have the sound guy mic the combo). The bassist should also have his sound up by his ears. People who can hear themselves tend to not turn up quite as loud.

 

[hardtop]

Any amp weighing in about 25 lbs ought to do it. Simply wait until your guitar players are looking away from you, pick the amp up with two hands, and swing it into the back of their heads. Problem solved.

 

[basslifter]

Do you have any recordings you can share with the guitarists? Sometimes 'evidence' can be helpful. Ohhh that is loud/sound like crap....

 

[hangman]

Earplugs or quit the band. Tinnitus is something you don't want. Ever.

 

[BILL BO SAGGINS]

Had the same problem with a Mesa boogie 4x12 player. Try cutting 100hz and below, then boost 500hz. Add just enough gain to pre load and start break up. This will cut through like a razor blade especially if you increase the gain and stack on more distortion. Yes it sounds different, but they are not going to change. The only other thing you could try is having everyone DI into the board and use in ear monitors.

Good luck

 

[Ric5]

 

[Acoop]

#1, Ear plugs! ... If someone hasn't suggested then do it. ... If someone has, I second, third and forth it. ...

 

[byacey]

I’ve been, and remain, one of those guitarists.

To me, the inherent problem here is that ‘musicians’ don’t understand music. The only way you can truly grasp it is to play the other instruments, in a band context. Then you learn to not see yourself at war with your bandmates, but to see yourselves in a cooperative venture together. Also, sound engineers are often control freaks who see themselves as the star, and don’t grasp that their true role is to support the band’s performance.

You can be loud enough on guitar to get your tone. You can hit the drums hard. That can all happen, AND the bassist can be heard clearly with good tone AND the singer(s) can be heard clearly etc.

And unless the gig room is tiny (in which case they should not be hiring heavy rock bands in the first place), it can all sound great without driving everyone out of the room.

It’s not rocket surgery. It just requires everyone to open their ears a bit.

To me, the optimal equipment config for rock guitarists is a “mini stack” consisting of a combo amp atop a vertical deep 2x12. It gets the sound up in the ears of that player so he can hear himself. It also supplies the bottom he seeks via the deep 2x12 plus the floor coupling.... while, from an overall mix perspective, not getting in the way of the bassist (have the sound guy mic the combo). The bassist should also have his sound up by his ears. People who can hear themselves tend to not turn up quite as loud.

Absolutely. The problem is a mental attitude, "Me first and foremost", instead of doing what it takes to make good music in a cooperative effort.

You nailed it on the head with your last sentence. Strapped and locked headphones on these nutcase guitarists, plugged directly into the output of their amps. If they want to be loud, let them listen to themselves, since that appears to be all that they are interested in hearing.

The headphones will also attenuate everybody else 12 to 20 db, so they'll be forced to turn themselves way down, if they want to hear anything else.

 

[Iristone]

Maybe Sansamp. One for each guit@rd and one for yourself.